From Workshop To Spotlight How Dirt Came Alive

A play can look effortless from the audience, but the real story is the messy, brilliant work underneath. We sit down with returning guest and playwright Zoe Rulin to talk about what it actually took to bring Dirt to life in a workshop production, from an unconventional tech week to the reality of making big theatrical moments on a scrappy budget. We get specific about the choices that mattered: a modular set that transforms from garden to city, sustainable props and costumes built through thrifting and reuse, and the kind of team energy that makes limited resources feel like fuel instead of a barrier.

Then we shift into the craft of playwriting and the pressure of deadlines. Zoe shares what “magic” feels like in the writing process, the discipline tricks that get her through resistance, and how ideas show up on trains, at parties, and in the notes app at odd hours. She also breaks down her newest full length play, What Is a Girl For?, and how she wrote it in six weeks to meet a locked reading date through her Princess Grace Award and New Dramatists residency, including how directors, actors, and a dramaturg can change a scene in the final hours before an audience hears it.

We wrap with what’s next: taking the work to the Cape Cod Theater Project for rehearsals, multiple readings, and talkbacks that turn audience reaction into actionable rewrites. If you care about theater production, self producing, staged readings, New York play development, and the real mechanics of collaboration, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share this with a theater friend, and leave a review telling us what part of the creative process you want us to dig into next.

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Transcript

Welcome Back Zoe Rulin

Keny 0:00

Live from Crawford Studios.

Lou 0:04

What? What's going on, my people? How y'all doing?

Keny 0:07

All right, we're doing good. Excellent, excellent. Today is we have a returning guest. Yes. Zoe Rulin.

SPEAKER_05 0:13

Hey, Zoe.

Keny 0:14

Let's go.

Lou 0:17

How you doing? Everything good?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Good. Yeah, great.

Lou 0:19

Good, good, good. Thanks for coming back on with us. Well, with me. This is the first time. First time for you.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Yeah, yeah. Nice to see you, Kenny.

Lou 0:25

So, yes, I appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Of course. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Tom 0:29

You were on, yeah, you were doing the play dirt. So can you tell us how that went?

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I'm trying to remember how how early on in the process we talked. I think I was in rehearsals already. Um, I think it maybe was so we were, we had done two weeks of rehearsal at that point. And so then I had another couple weeks of rehearsal. We had our tech week, which, you know, tech week is actually an interesting term because really we had a Monday evening for about four hours, and then we had a 12-hour tech day Tuesday, and then we were not back in the space until Saturday morning, and we had a matinee that day. So that was pretty wild. Um, my first tech week ever, uh, which is a it was a really unconventional tech week for a first tech week. Um, but that was really fun. I had never done tech for a show before, so that was great to just get to sit there and be like, oh, my part is over now. I just get to sit here and watch everyone else do their thing. I get to watch the director work with the designers, and so that was really fun. Yeah. And then we did, we did eight performances. We had a Saturday, Sunday matinee, and evening show for two weekends, and that was great. Like so many people, so many people came out for it. Lots of industry folks came out for it. My a lot of my family came out for it. You know, I had my grandma came from Alaska, my cousin came from California, my aunt came from Florida. So that was really nice as well. Yeah, that is that everybody came out for it. Yeah.

Keny 1:56

And I know Rob and Juliet were there as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yes, yeah. And

Dirt Workshop Highlights And Tech Week

SPEAKER_01 2:00

my Aunt Susie and my Uncle Joe, and um, yeah, they really, they really enjoyed it. That was it was really fun. I was actually seated right behind them for the performance they were at. So it was really fun to watch my Uncle Joe watch the play because he's not a theater guy. Uh and I could tell the first act, he was like, not really sure. But then the second act, like the first scene, he sat up and he was cracking up, and that was really gratifying, you know, that I could make him laugh. So that was really fun. And I yeah, I'm really proud. I'm really proud of what we were able to do with the constraints that were on us and the resources that we had. I mean, we did this show on a scrappy, scrappy budget. We originally budgeted $10,000. Ultimately, it cost around $12,000 or $13,000, but still for a show that's really little. And the designers were, I mean, our whole team was so amazing. I'm really proud of the way we all worked together. Everybody was really nice. Everybody was really supportive of each other. You know, that was awesome. Um, and the designers were able to do so much with so little. You know, we our sad designer did not have a huge budget and was able to create this really cool, versatile set. Because I don't know if you remember me talking about that. Yeah. So basically, right, the first act of the play takes place in a garden. So he created this garden box that then the second act of the play takes place in a city, and every piece of the garden could come apart and then get put back together. So it became a conference room and a bar, and there were stools, and it was just really, and then it could be put the at the very end, they go back to the garden, and it's so it, but the garden is smaller, it's about, you know, memory and childhood. And um, he was able to build it so it could be put back together but be smaller. And it was just, it was so cool to see. And our our props and costumes designer, Alex Church Gonzalez, I really have to shout them out because they were doing props and costumes and they came in under budget on both. Like they're really committed to doing reusable, sustainable, recycled materials. And so there was tons of, you know, scrap usage and thrifting and all of this really cool stuff. So not only did they create amazing props and costumes and come in under budget, but it was all like pretty much sustainable materials. So that was awesome too. Very interesting.

Tom 4:16

Like to see how creative people can get when they gotta work within a certain budget. It's like, all right, we're gonna use this, we're gonna figure this out, and just like make it work.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

It's unbelievable. I actually kept, right? So they do they do a bunch of harvesting in the play, and I kept some of the fake vegetables that Alex made out of fabric because they're just so amazing. So when we get off the call, I'll show you. I have the corn in my bedroom. I'll I'll bring it up for you. They're really cool.

Lou 4:40

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, yeah, and that and the actors were amazing. I was, I was really, I was just, I was really proud with an our our sound designer. Oh my gosh, Chacoa Stills, such a trooper, had a 15-hour day, our tech day, because the the light board was not working properly on our first tech day. So they went home, did a bunch of research, called their professor, mentor, and like worked it all out, came in at 7 a.m. the next morning so that everything would be ready when everyone else arrived at 10 a.m. Uh and then we tech'd all the way till 10 p.m. So they were, I mean, amazing. Like, like I said, I our our whole team was incredible. Um, so I'm really proud. I'm really proud of what we were, what we were able to do on a really, on a really small budget.

Lou 5:27

Oh yeah, that's awesome, man.

Keny 5:29

You'd be surprised what you can do, especially with all those different types of people and the imagination they have going on and how they could, you know, it's just your mind figures stuff out quick.

Lou 5:38

And not for nothing. That goes to show that that your play was something that everybody was super vested in. You know what I mean? If they really wanted to be there with you and, you know, make it all happen and then you would be in peace. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Yeah, yeah, totally. And and like shout out to my director, Tyler Christie, for for assembling an amazing team. He really, he put everybody together. I I didn't hire anyone. I sat I sat in on auditions and we decided about actors together. But besides that, the rest of the team, the rest of the team he picked. Yeah. So definitely shout out to Tyler for that as well.

Lou 6:09

Yeah, that's it. That is way groovy. Sounds like you guys could have fun. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like you're so excited, it's like, woohoo, it was a good time.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah, yeah. I mean, how could you not, right? Like it it's so amazing to see something that you've created come to life, you know, something that was in my head and then on a page. And then I got to watch people actually do it, actually bring these characters to life in front of an audience, and just so fun, right? Because again, we're constrained by the budget. So in a in a full production, these women would be sitting in a pile of fake dirt, you know. That's that's the vision. But we didn't have the budget for that. Not only that, but our set had to be cleaned up and stored so that the show that was in the theater Friday, Saturday could do their show. And then we pulled everything back out. So it had to be stored in about like a 10 by 3 by 3 space. So that was, you know, yeah, also an additional challenge. And so it was really fun to see, okay, so we can't do that version of it. What version of it can we do? And so they came up with this fabric motif where the fabric stood in for some of the vegetation in the garden. And and so that was really cool to see a version of what this could be uh if we're doing it on a smaller scale. So that was awesome. And then yeah, lots of people came. That was really fun, you know, a little bit stressful because I was also the producer. Self-producing is such a challenge. I don't think I realized how hard it was gonna be before I did it. I mean, I had self-produced readings before, but that is nothing compared to a, and this wasn't even a full production, it was a workshop production. But it was, it was a beast. I was like, wow, I can't believe I'm in charge of writing the play and editing the play and making sure the play is where I wanted to be. And also I'm the person who needs to worry about the fact that we have two shows on the Super Bowl and we're not selling the shows, you know. Right. It would have been really nice to not be the person worried about ticket sales, uh, but we

Designing Big On Little Money

SPEAKER_01 8:06

made it work.

Tom 8:06

I mean, one of the things that's probably cool though is that because you had so much involved in it that like it, you can kind of make your vision come true maybe better if less people are in it, right? I mean, I'm I I I'm assuming is that like an advantage, maybe? Or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

I mean, I was having this conversation a couple nights ago with a fellow artist who also does a lot of self-producing. I think self-producing attracts the kind of person who has trouble delegating and who just has this feeling of, oh, it'll be it'll be the way I want it to be if I do it myself.

SPEAKER_05 8:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

So there's an aspect of that to self-producing where you know it's gonna be the way you want it to be because you do it yourself. But theater is such a collaborative media that that it's it's impossible to do it all by yourself. And we had an amazing producer as well, Lila Weitzner, um, who just ran around doing absolutely everything. I don't even know how many different jobs she did because it it it was way beyond what a what a producer would normally be doing. But really, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, just random stuff like transporting props and costume, you know, anything we needed, any little thing that hadn't made itself onto the to-do list that we were like, oh no, we need this. She Lila would do it and she was amazing. Cool. That's so cool.

Lou 9:22

Yeah, that was a big movie. I'm glad it all went out with, you know, pretty much without a hitch.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Yeah, yeah. I mean, right. And I learned I learned a lot about the play. I'm glad that yeah, yeah, I got to watch it eight times. So I learned, I learned a lot. I was present for every single performance. And that was interesting because the first performance, the Saturday matinee, was the first time I'd ever heard it out loud start to finish in front of an audience. We never did a reading, we never did anything else, which was really kind of scary to realize, oh wow, the first time a group of people is gonna hear this is gonna be our first performance.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

I learned things about the play immediately. Some things I could change, some things I couldn't that I did want to change. And so then, you know, certain I had to make peace with, okay, some of these things that I want to change now are just gonna be constant for the rest of the run. And I just have to deal with that and get over it. Some things I was able to change. Let's see, I made I made a change between the first two Sunday shows, the Sunday matinee and the Sunday evening. And then I made a couple changes before the Saturday matinee the following weekend. So I was able to make minor changes, uh, but definitely learned a lot about the play, and there's much more work that I want to do on it. So hopefully someone who came or heard about it or read it will want to give us some resources to do another workshop because I want to really dig into act two and change a bunch of, you know, uh basically the way the play is structured, it has two protagonists. So there's one sister who's the protagonist for act one. And then at the act break, it switches and the set the middle sister is the protagonist for act two. Uh, and I really want to look at act two and look at her arc and figure out okay, what is the thing that she wants in this act? How does she change? How does things get in her way of what she wants? You know, kind of very basic playwriting structure things that uh I think I lost sight of a little bit in that second act. So I really want to do another workshop and dig into that. And then the first act in performance dragged, which I did not expect. Usually when I read the play by myself, it reads really, really fast. So I want to kind of do a little bit of work on it and figure out why that is. And some of the harvesting sequences can maybe get shortened. I'm toying with cutting two scenes from the end of the first act. And I had a great conversation with my director about that just a couple of days ago where he had this amazing idea for the transition between acts. So I really hope we get to get in the room again soon and and do some more work on it.

Tom 11:56

Yeah, that's super cool. Just, you know, if you could, you know, being able to like change it and be able to, you know, get it to get it like just right, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Yes, totally.

Keny 12:05

And that's a learning experience though, right? I mean, when you think about it, because you it's the first time you're doing this, and every time you go back, you look at it, and you're like, okay, I that's gonna change. No, I like that, you know. Or maybe I'll switch this around and put this here and there, you know, it's just and then that'll continue on with everything that you do from this point on, everything, and you'll just get better. You know what I mean? And it just gets that's how it is to right. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's I'm thinking about it. That sounds good. And by the way, not to change the subject, but we'll we'll get back to that. When you're talking about this and how everything is and the stage and the props and everything, I'm thinking I could see like a book, like a small book, the color illustrated. Yeah, in book form.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

This place, you know, yeah, that'd be that'd be really yeah, in a way, because it does have kind of a a fairy tale fable quality to it, especially with the magic in the play. So actually, I could see it as like a kid's pop-up book or something like that. Right. That'd be really fun and cool. That's something I feel like our set our Alex Church Gonzalez, who's who did props and costumes, I could be interested in, I imagine.

Lou 13:08

Yeah, yeah. There you go. That's part two to this. I'm just saying, I'm gonna have a book now. You got the play, you got the book coming up.

Keny 13:15

Yeah, no pun intended, yeah. Just dirt, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

We had this one actor, Maya Smoot, who kept saying, Oh, it could be a musical, right? Because we we also had a playlist for the play, which was we that was also a really fun aspect of the collaboration, is we had a collaborative playlist, we had a collaborative Pinterest board, so everybody was adding songs and images and other things that were inspiring them during the process. So this playlist is hours long and was really fun to be listening to while we were in the process. Um, but there's a lot of songs on the playlist that's sort of women chant, you know, chant type music. And so Maya was like, I really could see this as a musical with that kind of music. So who knows? Who knows what we do with it? I'm not really I I've never written a musical before and it's not a medium I know a lot about, but you'd figure it out sometime.

Self Producing And Learning Fast

Tom 14:06

Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's what I so I have a question. So when people see a like a finished play, it like it it can feel like magic, right? But when but what part of writing process actually feels like magic to you? Is it like the discipline, like the problem solving, or just like grinding through the work or something else?

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yeah, I mean, I think I think the part that feels like magic is the the in in the writing process at least, is the part when it starts to really work. So when I've been, you know, oftentimes I'll have, I think I spoke about this the last time we met, where sometimes I'll have a writing day that's challenging and I'm procrastinating and I don't want to do it, or I sit down and it's not coming easily. Uh, I have this half hour glass that my mom got me. And I will, that's part of my discipline is I will just flip it and go, okay, you have half an hour. You have to sit here and work it out for half an hour. And if at the end of that half hour it doesn't work, fine, you can get up, you can do something else. Uh and usually it takes about 20 minutes, and then I get into it. And and the the best part of writing for me is when you've really been hitting your head against a problem, you can't figure it out. You've been, I call it like fighting with the play. Sometimes I'm fighting with a scene, and then you figure it out, and you're like, oh no, it's it's this, of course, it's this, and then and then the writing comes after that. Like that's that's magic. Or sometimes I'll write something in a first draft, and that will feel like magic because you know, I I actually just finished writing a new play, which we should talk about. Um, but I remember I wrote this one monologue for it, and I I was like, whoa, where did that come from? It's so different from the rest of the play. I love it so much. It came out in one go. I've done some editing on it, but it's really it's a it's one of my favorite parts of the play, and it came out pretty much in one shot. So that that's very cool. That's part of part of what feels like magic to me.

Lou 16:00

Well, and how much of the stuff comes to you when let's say, like, you know, you're on the train to go to work or something, or you you know what I'm saying? Like, do you get those moments like and then you have to like jot it down and hope you don't forget about it or you know, like anything like that? How much of that?

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, with the new play that I just finished, definitely, which we can talk about the the process for that. Um, because it was a really, it was a really condensed process. And so I was having to optimize every second of time that I could possibly be working on it. So definitely there were I have the the the notes app on my phone, the list of notes for this play is miles long. Just because like you're saying, I would get an idea on the train, I would get an idea late at night. So I find that really important. I'm so grateful for the notes app on my phone because even if I forget my notebook, yeah.

Keny 16:49

I use it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Even if I forget my notebook at home, I have a way I have a way to write stuff down. With this, with dirt, that didn't happen as much because I it was already written. I uh, you know, I got a first draft of dirt in maybe 2021. So I've been working on it for a really long time. Okay. By the time by the time we got into rehearsal for it. But you know, I again, I was just on the subway with my director a couple nights ago. We had gone to see a play and we were talking about dirt, and then he had this great idea for the transition between acts, and now my now my brain is working, and I'm like, oh yeah, I think that would would work. So yeah, it just you never know. I I mean, and for the for the new play that I just finished, I went to a friend's birthday party and met someone, and we were talking, and she said something that really just kicked it off. And I went home and I wrote for maybe an hour or more, just wrote little sketches for the play. And honestly, that was a huge contributing factor to being able to meet my deadline because she just really sort of started the wheels turning and I was able to get sketches uh and a little bit of a roadmap for when I actually needed to sit down and put pen to paper.

Tom 17:57

Yeah, I could imagine how much those sketches help because you can actually now see like your vision like sketched out. And you're like, oh, okay, that's gonna go there, and that's gonna go here, and this is what's gonna happen, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Absolutely.

Rewrites After Opening Night Reality

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Yeah, and just idea ideas for scenes and and not knowing because then the new play is about Picasso, which we we spoke about on the last session. And it's so right, basically there's three sections to the play. Um, it's called What is a Girl For? And the first act, so it's a two, two-person play, two-actor play, but each actor plays three different characters. Uh and the first act is the Minotaur and one of the young women who get sacrificed to him. The middle act is about Pablo Picasso and one of his muses, Marie Terez Walter. And then the third act is about a professor, an art professor, and his student. And the, so the Picasso act is really the meat of the play, and the other two are kind of a framing devices. But so it's about Picasso and Marie Therese. Their relationship is a 10-year-long relationship. And so that, you know, could have been really daunting to say how what part of it do I show? How, you know, it was, it would have, it could have been a really monster of a task if I hadn't had that conversation with her and gone home and written a bunch of sketches and been like, okay, these are these are the aspects, these are the scenarios that I want to focus on. And that was so helpful.

Keny 19:22

Right. Yeah. It's it's amazing how you get a little spark. Yeah, somebody says something, I know, I know something, and it's like, because we're off to the races.

Lou 19:30

I want to hear what she said. What did she say?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

That just I don't even remember. I don't even remember. Yeah, yeah. And I emailed her afterwards and was like, Thank you so much. You know, I went home and wrote for an hour afterwards. Uh, and she's like, Yeah, creativity is such a it's such an interesting thing. You just never know. I honestly don't remember what she said. I just think it taught I think I was nervous about writing it and kind of stressed about the time in which I had to write it. And and so just talking to her in kind of a casual way and getting the juices flowing allow unlocked something for me. And I wasn't so scared of it anymore. And that allowed me to go home and and start doing some work, I think is is really what it was.

Tom 20:11

Do you ever get like days where you have like intense focus where like everything is about the story when you're writing? You're like, oh my God, that reminds me of this. Let me get, oh, you know what, that's gonna work there, and like you can't even pull yourself away from it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah. I mean, you get to or or I get to a point in a process. It happened with dirt, it did happen with this new play as well, where you're where I'm so in it and I've been in rehearsal for long enough, and and then yeah, everything starts to become about the play, and I'm seeing it. We'll be watching TV at night and it'll be reminding me of the play. And I'm reading the play onto the TV show in a way that I probably wouldn't be if I wasn't in the middle of the process. So yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Lou 20:55

That is awesome. Now, how much I don't want to say easier, but now that you know, you know, that you had that process doing dirt, how much easier is it for you to write this one, to put your thoughts onto paper? I guess we'll say.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Yeah, it's a good question. So I guess I'll speak a little bit about the the process and this condensed timeline that I'm talking

The New Play And The Spark

SPEAKER_01 21:17

about. So essentially I got the Princess Grace fellowship. I received the the news about the fellowship last August. Right. Okay. And the the play that got me the fellowship is Dirt. Uh and so, but I had found out about the workshop production at Arts on Site before I found out about the fellowship. So when I had my, because basically the Princess Grace Award gets me a one season residency at Neutromatus, which is this organization in the city that supports usually seven year residencies for playwrights. So they take around seven playwrights and residents. Each one of them gets seven years. So they have around 49 playwrights and residents at any one time. But the Princess Grace Fellowship is a one year version of. Of the seven-year fellowship for writers who are early in their careers, like myself. So I got the Princess Grace Award, which got me a one season residency at New Dramatist. So when I had my initial meeting with the team with the staff at New Dramatists, uh, we talked about my goals, we talked about what I wanted for the fellowship. One of the things that I get from the fellowship is a big reading of a play at some point. And I knew I wanted to do that towards the end of the fellowship as kind of a culmination event. Uh, and so I shared with them that I had this workshop production of dirt in January, which is right in the middle of the fellowship. So I was saying, I don't want to use the reading for dirt, that doesn't make sense. It'll have already had something a step beyond that, right in the middle. So I set a goal in September that I wanted to write a new play for the fellowship during the fellowship. That seemed really manageable in September when I set that goal. And then I, you know, I sort of had it in my head that I would have time to be working on this new play while also working on dirt while also producing dirt. And that turned out not really to be true because self-producing was way harder than I had expected that it would be. So essentially, Dirt, we had our final performance February 8th. Then I took a week and a half to make some rewrites on Dirt and send it out to folks who weren't able to attend. And then I wrote this new play in six weeks because the reading date had already been set in September. It was May 12th. So I I had a deadline. There was no way the play had to be done by May 12th. Had to be ready to be in front of an audience on May 12th. So, yes, so I I wrote it, I wrote it in six weeks, which is the fastest I've ever written a play. It took a lot of diligence and it it was a lot of saying no to things, not going out with friends, right, getting up early, you know, and being just really, really diligent about the writing. And so, in some ways, yes, it was it was easier to write this, having just come off the dirt process. Also, it's the first new full length that I've written in four years. So that was also amazing to just write a full-length play again, because I've mostly been rewriting older things for the interim. So that felt great to write a new play. Um, and I'm really proud of it. I'm really happy with it. And I think part of that is that I'm a better writer now than I was when I wrote dirt, when I wrote my last play. The bones of the new play are better because I'm an a stronger writer now. Whereas Dirt, the bones aren't as strong because I started that play when I was 25. And so I can rewrite, and I think there's changes I can make to make it how I want it to be, but it's just gonna take longer to get there. Whereas with this new play, I really notice a difference in terms of progression of my craft. So that's amazing that I was able to write it in six weeks and that I feel as good about it as I do currently. That's that's a major step forward that I notice. That's cool.

Keny 24:59

It's good that you can you you recognize that. You know that you've made that progression, you know, that and again, it's like what I said earlier, you you kind of build off of what you did previous. Yeah, and you always got a lesson there. Even when you think you got it down, there's like, you know what? I could probably do that differently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fire.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Playwrighting, you're never done. You're never done. And that's that's something I'm also really learning. There's this playwright, um, Brandon Jacob Jenkins, who doesn't, well, or at least didn't, the last I heard about it, which was maybe five years ago now, didn't like to publish his plays because you know, then once it's published, it's that's it. That's the script. And he was like, that's that's not how I think about it. It's always evolving, it's always changing. And every time I do a production, I learn something new. Um, which I thought was, you know, an interesting, an interesting way to look at it. So yeah, there's a lot of people who are are of the mind that a play, a play is never done. Now, you know, some of them are done.

SPEAKER_05 25:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

You know, I don't think I don't think the crucible, I think you could say is probably Yeah, yeah. We're good. You know, plays plays that have had hundreds of productions by this point.

Tom 26:07

I think we can say that they're yeah, I figure probably at a certain point you'd be like, I think it's I think it's I think we got it. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

You gotta get to I think I, you know, I've never had a routine, you know?

Tom 26:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Yeah. I've never had a play published, uh, but I hope that at some point I will get to a point where that's one an option, and two, I feel comfortable enough with the play to say, yeah, okay, this is this is what it is, at least for now. And of course you can always release a new edition if if something drastic changes and you think you've gotta make a big shift, that's always an option too.

Lou 26:39

Yeah, that's the beauty of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's freaking great. I love it. I mean, I I mean, I commend you in being able to sit in front of the people, you know, and just be able to like that's my play. I mean, I nervous I mean, I know I'm sure you're nervous a little bit, but like you're nervous involved. Yeah, but I probably would I'd probably be like, I probably wouldn't even get to the point where I say, all right, cool, read this because we're gonna, you know, we're gonna actually make it a production. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want to die. No, no, no. I changed my mind. You know what I mean? I'd bug out. Panic. Yeah.

Keny 27:09

How how hard is it for you to watch yourself when you see yourself when you go back and look at it? Are you uncomfortable with that? Um, you know?

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Wait, same, same more. I'm not sure 100%.

Keny 27:21

In other words, like when you go back and watch dirt, right? You said you were in are you comfortable with seeing yourself?

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Okay, well, so uh right. I'm not in the play.

Keny 27:30

Well, that's all right. Yeah, but you're still but but you're seeing or seeing your work. You're your work, right? So there's a part of you, it's a reflection of yourself in a sense, right? When you think about it. So I'm thinking, you know, are you comfortable? And that's probably where the changes come in. I think I probably just answered my own question. That's probably where the changes come in when you sit there and you know you're looking at it, you go, oh yeah, this, that, you know, well, I'm not comfortable with that. Maybe I'll just go this direction instead.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah, it's nice because often if I'm revisiting an older play, I'm revisiting it because I want to change it. So if I'm just sitting alone in my room and I'm reading the script, that's that's what I'm doing. And it's, you know, I don't really I haven't experienced this yet, at least where I'm judging my younger self for how how I wrote the play. That's not not really the experience. With dirt, it's funny, Kenny, what you're saying about being scared to be watching the audience. I I was a little bit right. There are certain people in the audience whose opinions I really respect. And it was nerve-wracking to have to have them there and and sit behind them and and wonder what they were thinking. Uh, but I'm definitely my own harshest critic. So it's way more about how do I feel about this and the critique that I'm putting on myself. It's way more about that than it is about other people and their reactions. Right.

Lou 28:46

Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And that should be the only one, really. Yeah. Well, yeah, definitely. Well, like you said before too, you know, it's it's all the people that have come and you're happy that you were able to, you know, have people, you know, have the emotion, the laugh, to cry, the, you know, just feeling what you wrote, but that you keep going back to change it, you know, that is that is all day the signs of you know you being your you know, your your your harshest critic. You know what I mean? Absolutely. That makes sense how I said it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:13

Yeah.

Keny 29:13

But in a positive way too, though. Well, yeah, yeah. Or obviously, you know, yeah, you know better.

unknown 29:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I think that comes down to the love of the process. Um, this is a really hard industry to be in. It's really hard to break into it. There's little to no money in it until you get to a certain level. So I feel like you have to really love it and you have to really love the process of it. If the part that you love is the production, 90% of it, if not more, is the process, is the writing and the editing. And so if you only love the production part, I think it you you would get burnt out. And so I think the part for me, the best thing about it is learning about it and then going back and and changing things. And I I love the process. I love the writing. So I'm, I mean, you can see I'm really excited to get back in the room with dirt to to make more changes. I'm like hungry and eager to get back in the room with that. I'm sort of chomping at the bit for that. So I'm, you know, I'm excited about that.

Keny 30:15

If we wanted to see that, how would we go about to see that? You gotta go to the theater. Can you send me a video? You have it on the video.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

I can actually send you a video. I can. Um we recorded, yeah, we recorded dirt, so I absolutely can send it to you.

SPEAKER_05 30:28

Oh, awesome. That would be great.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah, absolutely. Um, my friend Natalie Darren Johnson uh came to the final performance and did a beautiful recording of it. So I have that.

unknown 30:38

Yeah, yeah.

Lou 30:39

So you gotta send us the link too, because then we could post it up, put it on it.

Tom 30:42

Absolutely, you know. So like a little snip or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:45

Yeah, totally, totally.

Tom 30:47

So yeah. I'm I'm interested in hearing the the new play. So what is uh what is uh is there a date for it yet? Is do you is there a or is it kind of still like in progress like up for a couple of months, or do you guys have like a specific deadline? Is there a certain place it's gonna be and all

Princess Grace Fellowship And Six Week Draft

Tom 31:04

that information?

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Yeah, so so we did a reading of it on May 12th. So basically the way it happened is I wrote it in six weeks. I got a first draft of the play on April 9th, then I did some rewrites. I met with some friends April 15th and heard it out loud, some amazing friends and actors and dramaturgs and learned a lot from that. Then I had three more weeks to write and revise. And then uh I had I asked for this, which was really nice. New dramatists gave me an additional day in the room with actors that I wasn't supposed to have, but it's such an, you know, what we were supposed to have was six hours in the room together on Monday, then two hours Tuesday morning, and then we would do the reading Tuesday evening. That would, that's the May 11th and May 12th. That was the original structure, which I realize is something people do. They're one-day readings. Sometimes people just rehearse in the morning and do the reading in the evening. I was, I was very aware that this is a way that people work. I had never done it before. So I was I was nervous about that, but excited about that to try a structure I hadn't done before. But then just realizing it was such a new play that I would want to hear it with actors the week prior so that I could make big changes in between. Uh, and so I mentioned that to Emily Morse, who's the artistic director at New Dramatists, where I have the fellowship. And she was like, if you just want to hear the play, you can have actors for an additional day, which was so amazing. So just because I mentioned that I was gonna work with actors the week prior, I got an additional day Wednesday the sixth with my two actors, my director and a dramaturg. They were all incredible. And everybody who was available for the reading was also available for that additional day, which I couldn't believe. We got so, so lucky that basically our first. So when I mentioned the play and casting to the folks at New Dramatist, their first thought for the role was a man named Alfredo Narciso, and then John Stieber, who does all the casting at New Dramatist, uh suggested Heather Velasquez for the Marie Therese character because he was like the two of them would be on fire together. And he was totally right. We got so lucky that the two people who are first thought for the roles were available for all three dates. I just, I really, I couldn't believe it. We got we got so, so lucky. Lauren Zeftel was my director who came highly recommended from a couple of other playwrights who had worked with her before. Um, and then I mentioned to new dramatists that I had never worked with a dramaturg before and that I wanted to have that experience before the fellowship was over. So they paired me with Anna O'Donahue, who was also our dramaturg. So that was incredible. So we had Wednesday together, we heard the play out loud and then had a conversation about it afterwards. And that was the end of that day. It was about three, three hours with the actors, and then Lauren and Anna and I stuck around for another hour and had another conversation. And then I took what I learned from that. I did five days of rewrites. I had a seven-hour writing day that Sunday. Yeah, it was long. It was long. And that's like that's like at my computer. That's not including taking breaks to eat something or drink water or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 34:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

So yeah, that was a long one. And then, but that was amazing. And it was, I was, you know, my intuition on that was so right that I was not gonna want to do that level of work between Monday and Tuesday. I would not have had time to make all the changes that I wanted to make if we had stuck to the original structure. So I'm really glad that we got that additional day. And then we came in, had the full day of rehearsal on Monday, a couple hours a Tuesday morning, and then we did the reading Tuesday afternoon. So that was that was May 12th. So it's already been in front of an audience, which is wild for such a new play. It's really exciting. And then I got an opportunity to, I have an opportunity now to take the play out to Cape Cod at the end of the month.

New Dramatists Reading And The Team

SPEAKER_01 34:55

That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So there's this project out there called the Cape Cod Theater Project, which is in Falmouth. And they develop four plays every summer. And so you get a week of rehearsal and then three readings, each with a talk back after the reading. Uh so I got invited to be out there the first week of the project this summer. So I'm going to do that.

Lou 35:18

That's awesome. Congrats. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the funny is that I didn't know about that at Cape Cod because a bunch of years ago I had gone to Cape Cod and they had a music fest and like Mr. McMahon stuff was out there. Really? Yeah. So that then that's when I heard about like what Joey's talking about now, to go out there and they have the plays and you know, music festivals and stuff. Like, what? Of course, I haven't been able to go back since, but you know.

Keny 35:41

I haven't been there in so long.

Lou 35:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's nice over there. It's freaking gorgeous. So yeah, you're gonna have a good crowd over there, man.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, I've never been, so I'm really excited to just get to go and hang out. Yeah.

Lou 35:53

Yeah, it is great. You're gonna love it. It was it's so it I said it's beautiful out there, you know what I mean? And the vibe is just so groovy. Like, yeah, you're gonna it's gonna be. I never tell never did. Yeah, but no, you're gonna enjoy it. Yeah, no, I I was I was I was in my 20s, you know.

Keny 36:10

Um as a kid, I went with my parents.

Lou 36:12

Oh, no, no, no. I was already an adult, you know, children's bone and everything. I want to go whale watch. Yeah, this guy whale watching. Yeah, but it's really cool, man. Yeah, it's really cool. You're gonna enjoy it. Yeah, man. Good luck. Congrats. That's gonna be fantastic, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Yeah, it's really exciting. So I I leave, I leave to go up there June 28th, and then we get 25 hours of rehearsal and then three readings each with a talk back 4th of July weekend. So Okay.

Lou 36:37

Oh wow, 4th of July weekend. Yeah, it's gonna be fantastic. Yeah, you're gonna have a great crowd, man. Like, seriously, it's gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Yeah, I'm super excited. And their donors host us and put us up. It's gonna be, it's gonna be a really fun time.

Lou 36:50

Yeah, that is so cool. Oh man, good luck. Congrats on that other man, I'm I'm mad I can't go right now.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah, I was gonna say, if anybody, if anybody randomly is free Fourth of July weekend and wants to come to Cape Cod, you could you could hear you could hear the play then.

Keny 37:05

Meanwhile, and 4th of July falls on Saturday this year.

Lou 37:08

That's why I'm saying so, you know, it's gonna be good because I mean, so the first showing is on the fourth?

SPEAKER_01 37:14

No, so the first reading is Thursday the second, and then there's a reading Friday the third. We have the fourth all the way off, so that's really fun too. Okay. We get to just take that day off and and relax and beat people.

Lou 37:26

And then and then we have our readings. Yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

No, no, no, go ahead.

Lou 37:30

So I'm saying so that's why it's gonna be groovy too, because you know, the people that that get there a little bit earlier, you know, to get settled in, you know, the out of towners or just the people that, you know, even live there, come back locals, right? You know, that there's everybody getting settled in. So like, you know what? Well, we know, let's go see this, you know, and then they go see Zoe's play. And right, you know what I mean? Like that's where my head is at. So that's you're gonna have a really good turnout.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Yeah. Yeah. Hal Brooks is the artistic director at Cape Cod, and we were talking about the audience. I mean, I think the project has, I could be wrong about this, but I think the project has existed for about 20 years. So they have a really strong audience base and people who are excited to come back every year and see the plays. Uh and he was explaining there's there's a lot of scientists who live out there, there's a lot of marine biology stuff that happens. And so those people are really excited for the experimentation aspect of the readings, which I never would have made that connection. But that's really cool, right? They're used to running experiments and so they understand sort of the aspect of that that would translate to the arts. Because that's essentially what you're doing with your reading is you are experimenting. You throw it up in front of an audience and you say, you see how it works, and did they laugh at this? And oh that moment didn't total that didn't get a laugh. So maybe we we rework that a little bit, you know. That's that's kind of what it is. And it's so exciting to have three plus a talk back, right? So you get to actually hear directly from the audience what they thought, how it's affecting them. Uh, and then I get to go make changes the next morning if I want to, based on what I learned, and do it all over again the next day.

Tom 39:00

So that's gotta be really cool, the talk back session, though, because you're dealing now with a bunch of people who are potentially a bunch of scientists. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe you get like a really unique kind of feedback from them, I could imagine. Yeah. And what's really cool too is like they so that so to me, I I'm picturing that's like a local like theater community. Like they expect like a lot of shows to come and go, so they kind of go to them. So it's probably like a lot of the same people. So you can even feedback that way too, because they're like theater goers who are like, Oh, we saw this play was that play. Then maybe they can get really nice feedback.

Lou 39:32

Yeah, yeah. I remember going when she was a young producer. I mean, she was fantabulous. You know what I mean? Like that's the that's the whole vibe, yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

And I mean, yeah, there's plenty of people. Um, Bess Wool, who just won the Tony Award for um best play liberation this year. She she workshopped a play out on Cape Cod a number of years ago with at the project, you know. So there's definitely people who who start out at the project and and go on to, you know, the heights of the industry for sure. And that's got that's got to be exciting for the for the people who, yeah, like you're saying, watch the development all that time. Yeah, it does sound it sounds like people come back summer after summer. And Hal was saying actually some people see every single reading, like all three readings of the same play, they'll still come, which is wild. I've never seen, I mean, I've I've very rarely seen a play more than once. I've done it a couple of times, but so that's exciting. I wonder who those people are and how their brains work.

Lou 40:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because I I mean, it it's almost like uh I I guess it's like uh it's better than sitting in the house and watching TV. Sure, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and I mean if you think about it, you're you're out at Cape Cod. So I said for you know, not people who haven't gone in there, you know, out there uh being an adult. It is you don't want to sit in the living room. You know what I mean? You want to be outside, you want to go walk along the beach or something, check out theater, you know. Everything, I mean, because it's so pretty. It's nice, it's so it's crazy because me thinking about it, you know, remembering now, it's like, ah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 41:01

And it's a lot covered, though.

Lou 41:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's awesome. Like, you know, you see all the little houses that are there, you know, a lot of history, you know. I mean, a lot of some of the places, you know, uh, they've turned them into like Airbnbs and such. But it's just like, it's just such a cool vibe, you know. It's just so that you want to be able to go and see the play and listen to the music and the outdoor cafes and you know, even like you could rent the little scooter, the mopeds, and go around the island and stuff. Like I'm saying, like, you know, just go around the island and stuff. Like it's just, yeah, you're gonna it, um, yeah, man. Yeah. I'm gonna have to make a trip now.

SPEAKER_05 41:35

Totally.

Lou 41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

I'm really looking forward to it and just the the the relaxation of just a slower pace than New York City. I think it's gonna be really good for me. I mean, this has been a packed year between producing dirt and then writing this new play so fast. I think it'll be really nice to get out there and just have a total nervous system reset. Uh and Hal was saying that he was like, We're not trying to mimic development processes in New York City. You know, we're on the Cape for a reason. We we don't want you to spend the whole time in the rehearsal room. We want you to get out and enjoy the island and and and see things, you know. Yeah. Or it's it's not an island, it's the mainland, but you know what I mean. And to enjoy it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Lou 42:15

So I said it for like, yeah, no, you know, in town. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

It's I mean, I don't know. I like I said, I've never been, I'm not super familiar with the geography, but I do, yeah, I think

Actor Notes That Reshape A Scene

SPEAKER_01 42:25

it's the mainland.

Keny 42:25

Yeah, no, you're gonna enjoy. Do the question I know do the k do the actors help a lot too with the collaborating as well? Like if you get into Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Absolutely, absolutely. Oh my gosh, totally. I the even the morning of the reading, we had two hours in the rehearsal room together before the reading, and things that they both were saying changed the play, you know, an hour before we were supposed to read it out loud. Alfredo, who played the Picasso track, had had this great idea for basically the third act takes place in an art exhibit of Picasso's work. Uh, and we were really trying to figure out the the female character, the student, gets a really long two-page monologue at the end of the play. And we were really trying to figure out okay, there's there's shifts that happen here. When do they happen? Where do they happen? Why do they happen? And Alfredo was so helpful parsing that out. And he's like, Well, you know, you gotta remember we're having this conversation in a public place, we're having this conversation in an art exhibit. And she's kind of accusing him of wanting to sleep with her and how messed up that is and all of these things. So he's like, if we, you know, me, I'm a tenured professor, I have a lot to lose if someone in this room overhears this conversation and gets the wrong idea. So we worked that in of, you know, the the being when are they aware that other people might be listening? When are they not? That was so helpful and just changed the whole, changed the whole way that that was structured and the way that Heather was playing it. And it it solved all the problems. It's like, oh yeah, that's what, that's why we're good. It this way. Brilliant. So smart. Yeah.

Keny 44:04

It's nice to have that all the talent around you, right? That can just, you know, they f give you that feedback. That's all this good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

No, and I mean that's that's the big lesson that I've learned over the past few years is theater is a collaborative medium. I came out of my undergrad thinking that I could sit at my desk and make the play perfect by myself, and you just can't. That is not how it works. And for me, the sooner I let other people in on the process, the sooner I get other voices in the room, the better. And the more I listen to them, the better. And it's a lesson I learned at 16 and then have had to relearn. You know, I started writing plays when I was 16 and had the amazing fortune to be part of this program at Curious New Voices or Curious Theater Company in Denver called Curious New Voices, where I got to work with a professional director and their professional actors on a one-act play that I wrote when I was 16. And I learned really quickly, my gosh, the more I listen to this director, the more I listen to these actors, the better. They know a lot more than I do. And the play's gonna get better. So I learned that lesson really early and then kind of forgot it and had to relearn it over the last few years. But I'm so glad that I did because yeah, other people make all the difference. I just there's this kind of myth of the genius playwright who sits in their room and makes a perfect thing by themselves, you know, Tennessee Williams and Edward Alby and Arthur Miller, but I just that's not how it happens. Right.

Keny 45:29

Yeah, being tunnel vision sometimes is not the best way to go. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

You miss things. You you miss like and even with this new play, I've gotten some feedback in the last couple of days that I just totally, I totally missed. And I had friends read it and and and point things out. So, you know, maybe I'll make some changes before we go to Cape Cod. Maybe I won't. We'll see what happens. But but that was really interesting to be like, oh wow, yeah, I I'm so inside of it, it's so close to home for me that I just didn't even notice.

Lou 45:57

Right. Yeah. No, that's awesome. But I mean, you know what? And that's what makes you the better playwright, that makes you the better producer, you know, maybe the the better director. You know what I'm saying? When you're able to just take that feedback, you know, and and be able to work with that. You know what I'm saying? That makes you better, as far as I'm concerned. That's how I I agree.

Collaboration Ego And Conflicting Taste

SPEAKER_01 46:16

I mean, I think it's true in everything. I think collaboration is really important. You have to have the humility to know that you don't know everything. Right and to trust the people around you. Now you need to put the right people around you. You shouldn't, you know, shouldn't be listening to certain certain people are not gonna have helpful feedback. You need to know who your collaborators are and who you trust. I'm not saying trust the opinion of every single person, right? Some some audience members are gonna come and say things that just don't resonate with me at all. And and I graciously thank them for their feedback and not put it in the play. That's fine. Yeah. Um, but I you know, I think with everything, collaboration is is so important. I think it makes all of us better the more the more we've got.

Keny 46:54

You gotta just let the ego go. Right. That's how I'm so great because that's into me. Once you when ego is involved sometimes, that's when it happens. You're not right open to everybody else. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

And I mean, there's always a little ego involved, right? Because you want it to be good. I want it, I want it to be good.

Keny 47:11

There's a flexibility there though, because you realize that you know that it's gonna be better if I have all these other all this other input you know, from all these other people collaborating. It's yeah, that's awesome as far.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Yeah, the the trick is just to not, yeah, not grip it too tightly, not grip too tightly to what your vision is, unless you get it to a point where you're really happy with it and you're like, no, no, I mean this is what I want it to be, and other people are gonna have their opinion and and that's fine, right? I've noticed it recently. I've seen a lot of theater, and oh my goodness, my partner and I saw a play and we loved it. We absolutely loved it. And then my friend went with his husband and they hated it. He was like, I was checking my watch the whole time, wondering when I could leave. And I just I couldn't believe it. Like we loved it. It's one of my favorite things I've seen all season, and he couldn't stand it at all. So, and this is this is my director. This is the the director of Dirt. So obviously, someone who I really respect. Uh, and sometimes our taste pairs up and sometimes it really doesn't. So that happens, right?

Keny 48:12

Because you think, oh, we're right in line, and all of a sudden someone just goes to the other direction. Yeah, on certain things, of course. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Yeah, no, basically, right? There's there's kind of so it's myself and my director, Tyler Christie of Dirt, and my friend Ava Geyer, who's also an amazing playwright. I see things with Ava, I see things with Tyler. Sometimes the three of us see things together, Ava sees things with Tyler, and I just never, I never know when I walk out of a play where we're all gonna land. You know, sometimes I like it and Tyler and Ava hate it, sometimes the other way around. I just we look at each other for a minute and then are like, okay, what what did you think? Um, because I just never I never know where we're gonna land. It's wild.

Keny 48:52

Yeah, that's true. It's like Kenny and I with the DC and Marvel. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:56

Oh yeah.

Keny 48:57

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Because he has certain ways of think looking at uh DC where I don't. Like we don't agree. Yeah. We like the same things, but we're kind of going a different direction. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 49:10

For different reasons.

Keny 49:11

Right. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like we how the story should be or how it went. No, it shouldn't be that way. It should go, you know, more towards the way the comic was, you know. Yeah, yeah. Shouldn't. I love it. But I think it's Star Wars. We're pretty much we're pretty much we could. Yeah.

Star Wars Star Trek And Watching Orders

Keny 49:27

Yeah. We've been doing the Star Wars thing on the podcast too. We did all the doing all the rewatches of all the series, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

I know. I'm really I'm excited to listen because I did a rewatch with a friend during the pandemic. We did them all. But did you do that the whole in chronological order, not in relationship? So did I. That's what I did.

Tom 49:44

Yeah. The whole thing in chronological order.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Yeah, yeah. Which, you know, you you you learn a lot doing that. Now, now my partner and I are doing it with the studio Ghibli films. The um if you if you saw any of the the Miyazaki movies like Spirited Away or uh My Neighbor Totoro, are you guys familiar with any of this?

Lou 50:00

No, no, my my son did that. It sounds familiar. I'm not sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

It's uh it's a Japanese animation studio um Ghibli. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:11

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

And and they're great, right? So there's this movie Spirited Away that came out, I think, in the early 2000s, that is gorgeous. And my brother and I watched it so many times. We had the DVD, I've probably seen this movie a hundred times, but there were a lot of them that I that I had never seen. And so my friend and I started watching that in release order, in chronological order, and that's fascinating to watch how the storytelling and the animation style progresses, you know, as you as you go on. That's been really fun. My friend and I kind of dropped off on it, and then my partner and I have picked it up because you know the pandemic ended and life got busy again.

Keny 50:48

Are you still doing the Star Trek? No.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Yeah, I mean, not as much anymore. Um, but I've seen a lot of it at this point, right? I've been with my partner now three years, and I've gotten a pretty, pretty solid Star Trek education, I would say. Yeah, so we've fallen off of it a little bit. Maybe we'll get back on. I'm trying to convince him because he's mostly shown me sort of sporadic episodes here and there, like, oh, this one's important, this one a huge thing happens. And I I would be really interested to watch one of the seasons just all the way through start to finish. Because we haven't, we haven't done that yet. I've seen, you know, six or seven of the movies at this point. Um and we watched a lot of the newer, the newer Star Trek content that has come out. Um, like lower decks, I think is really great. I don't know if lower decks.

Lou 51:33

I love lower decks.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

So it's so good. It's and I don't even really like animate. It's funny, I was talking about Ghibli, but I I don't really like animated things normally. Um, but but lower decks I I really, really enjoy.

Tom 51:45

I gotta check it out. Yeah, no history. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

You are you a are you a Star Trek guy?

Tom 51:49

Well, no, and that's the thing. So like we're doing Star Wars now, and then we're gonna do Star Trek. Yeah, we're gonna do that and I'm kind of saving it because I want to get my like take as like a first person watching. I've seen like some Star Trek, like I watched Next Generations when it aired when I was younger. Right. I watched a few of the movies, but I can't say that I know like a lot. So when we do that, I'm gonna get it from like a first time. Oh yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

That's great. Oh, that'll be really fun. I had a bad thing.

Lou 52:16

So you guys know I my sister, I told you guys this, my sister got me into watching the Star Trek in a different way. They I looked it up, and there's a way to watch it in chronological order to say we did Star Wars. Yes, right, and I didn't know that. Yes, because I was watching, I told you guys that I was watching um Strange New Worlds, and she's like, Stop it, cut it out, go back and watch Discovery. I'm like, Discover who? Like, what are you talking about? And she's like, go back and watch it. And put a whole new twist on everything.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, my so my partner Gary had me watch Discovery first. I haven't finished Discovery, I've only watched the first like three seasons of it, maybe, and then we started Strange New Worlds. But definitely there's something in Discovery you have to know before you watch Strange New Worlds. Yeah, yeah.

Keny 53:03

And if you really go back to the original series, that's where it first starts, and how you know about him and how he actually died and everything else. So that's why now we're gonna be.

Lou 53:16

We just jumped in. Listen, that's gonna come from it.

Keny 53:18

So for me and for Kenny, we would go home at night after hanging out with our friends when we were kids, yeah, and that's what was on late at night. Yeah. Uh-huh. On WPIX 11, right? So you had it was the odd couple, it was the honeymoon, it was Star Trek reruns, and then the Twilight Zone. Yeah. Yeah. So you would be up that whole time watching that. So I know like I've seen every episode. Um my c my parents are were Star Trek Dweebs, you know what I mean? And I got it from them, and I've always been with the sci-fi, and of course, Star Wars and all that other stuff. Channel 11 and 9, I always think at Star Wars.

Tom 53:49

I think channel nine, did they have Next Generation? Was that the was that one part of it? They had it in the repeats. They had it in the re-peats.

Lou 53:56

Yeah, okay. Well, originally aired on the city. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm gonna say like this. When we have it, we're gonna have to have you, Zoe, and Gary back on.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

You definitely should have Gary on. Oh my gosh. Yeah, he like, yeah, yeah, like you, Lou, he's seen every single episode of sure multiple kinds.

Tom 54:14

Yeah, I'm sure there's more that he can go into for sure. On our Star Wars episodes, we will get our Star Trek.

SPEAKER_05 54:21

Yes, when you start doing Star Trek, you should have him on.

Cape Cod Dates Final Thoughts And Goodbye

Keny 54:27

Yeah, for you awesome. So thank you so much for coming back on with us.

Lou 54:31

Appreciate it. As always, it was great. And tell us, like, do it real quick before we say goodbye. Give us all the info on the new one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

The place called What is a girl for? It's gonna be at the Cape Cod Theater Project, 4th of July weekend. We'll do three readings. So if anybody's out there, it's just Cape Cod Theater Project. Uh, you can you can Google that. It's in Felmouth. There were lots of industry folks and theaters and people who came to the reading we did at New Dramatist in May. Maybe folks will hear about the Cape Cod Theater Project. There's some folks who have the script who weren't able to attend the reading. So hopefully something will happen and we'll either get another workshop and or a production from that, some of the development we're currently doing. So fingers crossed, I have no idea, but I will absolutely let you know next time we get to get to be in a room with it and get to put it in front of an audience. Absolutely. And same with dirt. Who knows? Who knows what happens next with that? But I will absolutely let you know if anybody out there listening, you know, wants to give us some some resources to do a workshop of either play. Yes, hit me up.

Lou 55:33

Yeah, for sure. Definitely. That is awesome. But yeah, so I'm happy for you. Congratulations. Good luck. Yeah. And all that good stuff. Because man, yeah, you're gonna have a great time in at the Cape. So you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_05 55:43

I'm really excited. Yeah. Yeah.

Lou 55:45

Excellent, excellent. So with that, thank you for being here again, Zoe. Appreciate it. It was my pleasure. Really fun hanging out with you guys. But yeah, so thank you. And uh everybody else, thank you for listening, watching us, like, subscribe. Show us on wherever you watch your podcast. Wherever you watch your podcast, listen to your podcast. Join us and all the other good stuff. So love, peach, and hair grease. Live long and prosper. And may the forest be with you.

SPEAKER_05 56:08

Hello.