Beginner's Mind

#77: Alexander Valtingojer - How to Invest in Digital Assets

June 01, 2022 Christian Soschner Season 3 Episode 18
Beginner's Mind
#77: Alexander Valtingojer - How to Invest in Digital Assets
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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

What is going on in the world of digital assets in 2022? In May 2010, 10,000 BTC bought 2 Pizza.

Last year in November, the same amount had a value of 600 Million dollars. A lot has evolved since 2010 in the digital asset ecosystem.

That's why I asked Alexander Valtingojer, CEO of Coinpanion, to discuss the latest development in the crypto market. This episode was recorded in January 2022.

 What are the topics we discuss in this episode?

  • Digital Natives and the Boomer Generation
  • Bitcoin and other Cryptocurrencies
  • The Biggest Wealth Transfer in Human History
  • NFTs, Web 3 and the Metaverse
  • And much, much more

 πŸŽ™οΈ Youtube: https://youtu.be/0_m-9EgHl3M

Books in this episode:
Ray Dalio, The Changing World Order

πŸ•’  Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro

(03:30) South Tyrol – Cultural Background

(06:00) The Development of Digital Assets in Q1/2022

(10:00) Long Term Perspective of the Crypto Eco-System

(17:30) The Future of NFTs

(20:45) What NFTs can do for books

(25:30) What Are Smart Contracts?

(27:45) Remodeling the Book Industry with Smart Contracts

(30:30) Interoperability

(31:30) Use-Cases for NFTs in the Creator Economy

(38:00) NFT become Commodities

(39:30) A Brief History of Smart Contracts

(41:30) Tokenized Shares

(45:30) How Regulation Helps the Ecosystem

(47:08) Web3 and the Metaverse

(52:30) Star Trek, Ready Player One, Mark Zuckerberg and the Metaverse

(54:30) Lex Friedman – What Happens When an AI becomes conscious?

(58:15) The Mission of Coinpanion

(01:02:06) The Story Behind the Foundation of Coinpanion

(01:04:30) The Investment Approach of Coinpanion

(01:10:30) Bitcoin

(01:16:30) The Biggest Generational Wealth Transfer in the History of Human Society

(01:18:30) Use Cases for Gold

(01:20:30) NFTs, Collectibles, and the Gaming Industry

(01:24:30) Maker and DeFi

(01:26:30) Ethereum

(01:30:30) Charles Hoskinson, Cardano, and ADA

(01:31:50) Polkadot and Link

(01:35:50) Uniswap

(01:37:57) USDC

(01:40:30) Stablecoins, Stacking, and Default Risk

(01:45:30) Coinpanion helps with investing in Digital Assets

Podcast Links:
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Christian Soschner: https://linktr.ee/soschner

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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:11:07

Christian Soschner

What is going on in the crypto market in 2022. There is the answer from Alexandre Adekoya, CEO of COIN Pantheon.

 

00:00:11:16 - 00:00:30:23

Alexander Valtingojer

So it's nowadays like beginning with millennials and going down with Gen Y and Gen Z. People are practically born with the phone in their hands and there are lots of studies also, if you ask like chances. So people who are like, I don't know about 16 them 18, something like that. If you ask them where they feel more comfortable, more themselves.

 

00:00:31:14 - 00:00:44:03

Alexander Valtingojer

Their response over 50% was that they say they feel more comfortable in what, instead of online and offline. So our lives are shifting into the digital area, and I think this metaverse is a bit of like the alignment of the future.

 

00:00:44:13 - 00:01:20:01

Christian Soschner

Alexandre Biden Goyer is CEO of the crypto FinTech COIN Pantheon. He was already intensively involved with cryptocurrencies during his school days, which led him to actively work on various projects in this scene. The first project he developed was a Bitcoin PayPal marketplace. Later in his studies, he started actively trading cryptocurrencies and also worked on his own as CEO, for which he spoke on the panel at the Sea Free Crypto Conference in Berlin.

 

00:01:20:11 - 00:01:50:05

Christian Soschner

After that, Alexander founded a sole proprietorship for software services for about four years. Alexandre has been intensively involved with the financial markets and, due to his skills, was also a trader on the previous version of COIN Pantheon. Quintillion has now grown into a company with 30 plus employees and aims to help everyone get started in the crypto market with smart portfolios.

 

00:01:50:13 - 00:02:22:02

Christian Soschner

Innovative technologies are reshaping our world all the way from decentralized banking systems to digital art. With companion, you can join distribution by investing in the world of tomorrow. We are talking about digital natives and the Boomer generation. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. The biggest wealth transfer in human history. And ifthis breath free. And the metaverse and much, much more.

 

00:02:22:07 - 00:02:51:18

Christian Soschner

I hope you enjoy the show the same way as I did. Welcome to a new episode of the Beginner's Mind podcast today with one of the best topics ever at this time of the crypto currencies. And I'm very happy today to have as a special guest. Alexander. How should I spend your money? I think I can go from.

 

00:02:51:21 - 00:02:52:15

Alexander Valtingojer

Australia and it's.

 

00:02:53:18 - 00:02:54:21

Christian Soschner

Not just an income from.

 

00:02:55:10 - 00:03:12:21

Alexander Valtingojer

It's I'm from Salvador. Yeah, it's a south Chile name, but not really common. Let's, let's call it like that. That's like actually researched once. How do people on LinkedIn and on Facebook who have the same last name that I mean I have to recall that.

 

00:03:12:21 - 00:03:13:15

Christian Soschner

Go ahead. Go ahead.

 

00:03:13:18 - 00:03:24:18

Alexander Valtingojer

And then the and I kind of figured out they are somehow all related to me, like to my grandparents grandparents. So I never the tip of out. That's an uncommon name.

 

00:03:25:14 - 00:03:34:16

Christian Soschner

So it's a typical and common name from South Tyrol, directly from the mountainous area in Austria with its really beautiful.

 

00:03:34:17 - 00:03:35:17

Alexander Valtingojer

Italy in Italy.

 

00:03:35:17 - 00:03:46:14

Christian Soschner

Italy. Yeah. But I think we have a common history, Retiro itself in the north and I think the people still see their commonality is it's the great.

 

00:03:47:05 - 00:04:11:22

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah. Yeah. So I would definitely say we have like our own definition of culture and software, but really this mixture of Italy and Austria, do you feel also an impact and you feel the Italian impact on this mixed up to its own culture? But yeah, for sure. Related to also that there's a reason a lot of us move to Austria, but I was actually moved down to Italy, so I would say it's a unique place in that regards.

 

00:04:12:14 - 00:04:35:18

Christian Soschner

Central Europe generally. It's a great melting place. It reminds me of my town where I went to university tracks. It's also had some Mediterranean influence, some influence from Slovenia, Croatia, also Italy and Spain and go further southwards. We still see Austrian influence. So it's it's one of the best regions to live in, especially, I mean, but if in Japan itself, terrible, beautiful mountains.

 

00:04:35:18 - 00:04:38:16

Christian Soschner

Beautiful lakes. It's amazing.

 

00:04:38:17 - 00:04:46:01

Alexander Valtingojer

Fabulous. Great food. Yeah. No, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. In Vienna.

 

00:04:46:23 - 00:04:52:22

Christian Soschner

Yeah, it is. I was like I said, it's a great city to be in, in the heart of Europe. This.

 

00:04:52:22 - 00:04:53:05

Alexander Valtingojer

However.

 

00:04:54:02 - 00:05:29:20

Christian Soschner

Let's jump to the topic of today's podcast episode when we agreed on the recording and I think for some when they looked over November last year, just remember the the Monica's on the social media channels like YouTube might be saved I think is highest price prediction for Bitcoin was 1 billion. Ron Paul Etherium will go to 30,000 and we all were so sure that's by tomorrow we will be all extremely rich and the only way cryptocurrencies can go is up.

 

00:05:30:05 - 00:05:55:13

Christian Soschner

And now two months or three months later, we are at the end of January 2022, we see a little bit of that's decentraland they would say disaster loans in cryptocurrency. Many of the crypto investors see their first bear market or a glimpse into a bear market with a huge crash. How do you perceive that you gave up many of the last three months?

 

00:05:55:24 - 00:06:15:15

Alexander Valtingojer

Hmm. It's actually interesting. I think there was definitely a lot of over it in the market so you could see it. As for sure, it was a former room market. So like a lot of people have had a fear of missing out and wanted to get in as quickly as possible. I guess it wasn't only the case for cryptocurrencies.

 

00:06:15:15 - 00:06:37:09

Alexander Valtingojer

I also definitely think so. It was for tech stocks in general investing like I would say, more risky assets. All got a bit bumped now and last couple of weeks and months. Yeah, it's all it's like I'm never a big fan of price predictions I think I also mentioned that in the first talk we had, so I never do like really a high price predictions.

 

00:06:37:09 - 00:06:59:23

Alexander Valtingojer

I think like Bitcoin is going to 100,000 USD by the end of the year. I think nobody knows where the market is going, especially autumn. So I feel like often this price addictions are really based on what is going to happen in the next year, and I feel like one year is just too short of a timeframe to make a prediction because nobody knows if the market's going up, down, sideways or in circles.

 

00:06:59:23 - 00:07:21:18

Alexander Valtingojer

Nobody knows it. And there's so many external factors which influences the market environment, especially short term. Now it's like this like interest rates can increase against the markets and moving around. We have some troubles in Ukraine. Yeah, so there are a lot of different things happening in a in a short time frames, which influences the market, which influences the emotions.

 

00:07:21:21 - 00:07:57:06

Alexander Valtingojer

And I feel like especially short term markets are often influenced by emotions. So so what I like always to see to say is like, I suppose those are linked and I think a couple of weeks ago, don't get overinvested and don't get crazy about market movements which happened the last couple of weeks. Amongst my best. I won't I won't say advice because I'm not giving financial advice, but I feel like best strategy in my opinion is always just make a savings plan, invest for a couple of years, don't think too much about short term movements because in the end, if you really believe in an investment thesis, it's going to go up.

 

00:07:57:06 - 00:08:15:07

Alexander Valtingojer

And I'm like, I'm like, sure, that Bitcoin is going to get way, way higher than it's now. I just don't know if it's in one or two or three years. I know it's going to be in ten years plus. And I'm like the same opinion with crypto and the same opinion with benefits and the same opinion with the defi market and the same opinion with the stocks tech stocks market.

 

00:08:15:17 - 00:08:21:18

Alexander Valtingojer

I think these are like super interesting markets. There's always like super hard to say where it's going to go tomorrow is.

 

00:08:21:18 - 00:08:49:01

Christian Soschner

Let's get started with the long term perspective of the crypto market. I went, I'm 47 years old and I went through a lot of euphoria and surprise when I think about from the beginning of the internet was 1994, 1995. There was also euphoria until 2000 where everybody thought we are at the beginning of a new area like making everybody rich.

 

00:08:49:09 - 00:09:12:21

Christian Soschner

And then 2000, 2001 happened and a lot of people said it had come from. So nobody expected it. And looking at Amazon, for example, in 2000, 2007, I think the price of Amazon dropped by 90% within a couple of months. And now when we look at Amazon, it's it's still one of the biggest and greatest companies in the world.

 

00:09:12:21 - 00:09:38:20

Christian Soschner

And Jeff Bezos, I think is number two or number three being one of the richest people in the world. When I look at 2007 and eight, we had a similar scenario to prices on the stock markets went up again and suddenly nobody expected such a crash. It happened and then we had the very long run with short interruptions and I would say flash crashes happened quite frequently in your opinion.

 

00:09:38:20 - 00:09:49:23

Christian Soschner

But look at the cryptocurrency ecosystem that evolved since, I think 2008 nine when Bitcoin was invented. Where do you see the long term perspective in this ecosystem.

 

00:09:50:20 - 00:10:20:04

Alexander Valtingojer

Long term perspective, this ecosystem? So I think especially a lot happened in the last one and a half, two years in the currency market with actual adoption happening in the DEFI and NFT space. My opinion, especially as NFT to my take around crypto, is one of the killer applications of long term adoption. And you also kind of saw there's a there was a lot of venture capital, a lot of investment money put put into companies building free applications.

 

00:10:20:13 - 00:10:38:12

Alexander Valtingojer

So I think now I am like, I exactly agree. But you said there's always a party in the market which drives the market up pretty quickly, but then people kind of find out, okay, we are not there yet. So it's always like, I think I feel like a lot of people always have this perception when the future tomorrow and I'm invest now because tomorrow it's going to happen.

 

00:10:38:22 - 00:11:01:21

Alexander Valtingojer

But it takes some time because things are developing and adoption is happening again. Back to the long term perspective of the ecosystem, I think we are now in the adoption of face of a lot of applications in the cryptocurrency space and last couple of years it was a lot. Okay, we have this beautiful technology which you can use in different different fields off of your life.

 

00:11:01:21 - 00:11:25:11

Alexander Valtingojer

We could use it in the banking system, we could cut those middlemen, etc., etc. There was a lot of dreams in that. But I feel like especially now with this, that free domain which is happening, that we say, okay, we got a new the new new area of Internet, that's actually the killer application for crypto. And I think from there it will then expand more and more in different areas of our lives.

 

00:11:25:23 - 00:11:47:03

Alexander Valtingojer

So what I see is two trends currently which influence the crypto ecosystem. One is definitely if you look at the digitization of our generation. So it's nowadays like beginning with millennials and going down with Gen Y and Gen Z, people are practically born with the phone in their hands and there are lots of studies also if you ask like gen season.

 

00:11:47:10 - 00:12:10:09

Alexander Valtingojer

So people who are like, I don't know about 16 them 18, something like that, if you ask them whether they feel more comfortable, more themselves, their response over 50% was that they say they feel more comfortable in modern set of online and offline. So our lives are shifting into the digital area. And I think this metaverse is a bit of like the alignment of the future.

 

00:12:10:09 - 00:12:37:14

Alexander Valtingojer

We definitely see this trend of people becoming more and more digital. I mean, we doing the podcast digital, I'm communicating digital, but I'm in a lot of forums and communities digital where I exchange ideas. So a lot of our life is happening. Digital. I think that's like this, this first adoption phase. We say, okay, we are as humans, more, more than 50% digital because we have our different entity, our data exchanges, our digital self, basically.

 

00:12:38:03 - 00:12:55:18

Alexander Valtingojer

And the second thing is, which is happening now is the adoption of the system that we have digital ownership. Yes, people always want to express themselves. They want to have ownership. So they want to say, I have my beautiful car, my paintings of my clothings. So I see that's one of the things which is happening with the technology and with gaming.

 

00:12:55:18 - 00:13:20:04

Alexander Valtingojer

We already had it like seeing gaming items that you have two guns which have two skin you avatar, which I don't know, I have some items to play around and now it's going to go broader in the whole cultural area of digitalization. So the first thing is, okay, I basically have crypto US layer which is connected with all these different platforms and basically my crypto wallet is my stuff, like my ownership, like my house, my car, my keys, my wallets.

 

00:13:20:12 - 00:13:23:24

Christian Soschner

My wife, my house, Macao, my keys, my bike.

 

00:13:23:24 - 00:13:43:14

Alexander Valtingojer

So yes, basically within a certain area. But yeah, it's going that direction. I definitely believe so that actually experience it all so myself because I see how I grew up with gaming a lot and I see how this is all it's like moving in my generation area and I see this is happening and I think that's the first wave that we are now and is culture adoption.

 

00:13:44:00 - 00:14:09:10

Alexander Valtingojer

And the next wave is uses our usage adoption where we see it happening with implementation of companies like Mita, IMAX, Facebook, Microsoft and other big players which try to but also like more than culture value, but actually use such value to these tokens. For example, what is happening a lot now is currently also access to private communities. So you have your tokens like the dinosaur up in real time.

 

00:14:09:10 - 00:14:29:17

Alexander Valtingojer

In real life, if you're tokens that you can access exclusive communities, that was always a thing and it's going to be a thing in a digital area that you have access to specific concepts, movies that you have content, and I think it's going to be bigger and bigger and bigger. The more we automate other stuff, the more content is greater and crypto is basically then the usage of the access piece of that.

 

00:14:29:24 - 00:14:52:11

Alexander Valtingojer

And this movement is happening currently, but it's in early phase and also going to show how early we are. I mean, there's a lot of venture capital money in, there's a lot of companies which committed to it, but the market is at 40 to 60 billion total market capitalization. I mean, that's like Activision Blizzard, which was bought by Microsoft, like a small company just bought by a bigger company.

 

00:14:52:18 - 00:15:12:09

Alexander Valtingojer

That's the whole NFT market. And super people will get crazy about it. So I think we are super, super early in that phase. I think we also are bitten about it in a space. I don't think too that it should be that high, especially for the use cases which you have currently. But I see that there's a lot of development happening as he does, a lot of the adoption happening.

 

00:15:12:14 - 00:15:37:10

Alexander Valtingojer

And I think with all this technology, it's basically playing around and like we are like this whole metaverse A.I. robotics that we all combine these technologies, especially 5G and the digital and the generational shift that this crypto market is basically going to be drawn up like a rocket with that, basically. So I would say it's it's always how this timeframes.

 

00:15:37:20 - 00:15:45:24

Alexander Valtingojer

But ten years and ten years, I think it's going to be in every aspect of our lives somehow a token which represents ownership in a like ecosystem.

 

00:15:47:00 - 00:16:22:12

Christian Soschner

I totally agree to that. I mean, before 1994, I think the digital world was restricted to one computer maximum per household, not connected to anything else. Then we had this Blu rays and CD-ROMs and disks 3.5 inches or 5.25 inches. And before 1975 there was nothing. So I really see it evolving and developing. Maybe not that that speeds like some influencers would like to see it coming.

 

00:16:22:14 - 00:16:41:15

Alexander Valtingojer

I also think it's a bit like they're they are far beyond expectations up to high currently, but there's a lot happening. Different industries which will eventually play together. I think especially big is just currently cloud computing. How can you explain this to us is that computing power is important for all these ecosystems and how can you like get it like live stream?

 

00:16:41:15 - 00:17:05:22

Alexander Valtingojer

Basically that's that's one of the killer applications in that sense. But this is happening. I mean, we see so many developments in so many areas. And for my like, first of all, understanding is definitely a movement is digital to the area. The generation is is growing up in it already and technology is catching up so fast that this is like, yeah, it's like 100% sure that it's going to happen.

 

00:17:06:06 - 00:17:23:14

Christian Soschner

I, I see, I see. I see the acidic bar rolling as well. So it's rolling in the future, but maybe for my generation, let's stay a little bit with the basics. And you mentioned a few a few terms and I would like to be free of this to shed more light on that. So the first one is NFT.

 

00:17:23:14 - 00:17:25:01

Christian Soschner

What is NFT all about?

 

00:17:25:13 - 00:17:50:10

Alexander Valtingojer

Yes. So NFT basically means Nonfungible token, and it's a digital representation of ownership and uniqueness. So kind of I mean, it's always simple to start with, and that's what's one of the first use case of it. But we can imagine it like that. You can have unlimited copies of the Mona Lisa which look 100% alike, but you only have one original art, which is really the original one.

 

00:17:50:10 - 00:18:09:20

Alexander Valtingojer

Elizabeth The value and the culture connection to it. And that's the same. And that that's how we have in real life. We have serial numbers and we know like this person built that and that's the original to that's only one piece in the digital area. There's like there was always this issue of uniqueness because I can copy paste movies as many as many times.

 

00:18:09:20 - 00:18:33:21

Alexander Valtingojer

I want to have images, I can copy paste them as many times as the one with gaming already, like in a central way to solve that, that it's just a game maker just as a cadet's no more. But then we have no interoperability. And what NFT is basically doing now is they're abusing basically blockchain technology, a decentralized system of consensus to define a uniqueness to a specific item.

 

00:18:34:05 - 00:18:55:14

Alexander Valtingojer

So I can say, okay, for example, the artist creates a picture like of a digital art piece and connects itself to you. And we have the general consensus that this is the original with true blockchain technology, which is like an centralized system where we kind of define, okay, this is technology, we trust the technology, there's nobody manipulating it.

 

00:18:55:18 - 00:19:18:15

Alexander Valtingojer

And our general consensus is that we trust the technology. It's the same that we somehow trust also a museum, that there's a surgeon, Mona Lisa. But to a certain degree, just with blockchain, we actually have the technical proof that it is. So I think that's that's the connection, a bit of it. We have this technology which makes to us that is just one we have to consensus are written basically a token represents this digital item.

 

00:19:18:22 - 00:19:35:07

Alexander Valtingojer

You always can then use centralized, centralized system to display it or to use it, but it's this token which gives it access to the usage of it. For example, like a key or specific key which can open specific doors and no other keys can augment. And we have this digital version of it.

 

00:19:35:21 - 00:19:56:17

Christian Soschner

Yeah, all this new technology, I think needs a little bit of explanation when I think I mean I love free to use so there are some books and before 1994, before Amazon came on the market with the Kindle app. So before I think 2010 or 2011, the only way to get books was in this form was just physical, physical books.

 

00:19:56:17 - 00:20:24:01

Christian Soschner

So then came Jeff Bezos and said, okay, you can make this book not only into a PDF file, you can also put it on a Kindle app. So it's for reading. And I immediately saw the value of it because when I wanted to travel and I mean books this size, so I can carry one or two with me and when I have my Kindle with me, I can have my entire library accessible for me all the time.

 

00:20:24:07 - 00:20:43:12

Christian Soschner

But the problem that came with that is I cannot sell digital books. So for example, when I read right out of those books and I want to change it with your friends, okay, I give you my one of my angel. Give you one of yours. I can do it with two physical books, but I never found a way to do it with digital e-books in.

 

00:20:44:04 - 00:21:11:11

Alexander Valtingojer

General, revitalized because basically Amazon is owning that system and that's breaking down like a lot of creators. I think this is really a creator driven solution to this issues. I say, okay, my book is the token. You have access to that book to the token, and now you can just treat it like everything else because we have an ownership model which is not connected to central institutions, not Facebook, Amazon, whoever controlling that system.

 

00:21:11:17 - 00:21:14:08

Alexander Valtingojer

It's basically the blockchain. And blockchain is a decentralized systems.

 

00:21:14:08 - 00:21:42:14

Christian Soschner

Nobody wants to do it the way I understand you, right? So basically the writer, the author of the book, The Creator, can use the NFT technology, let's call it that way, to make unique copies of one digital book. And he can sell this book, stand to readers, and the readers have a unique version and can then exchange the unique version with other readers and say, okay, I give you one of my digital NFT books and you give me one of yours.

 

00:21:42:24 - 00:22:00:05

Alexander Valtingojer

My example that's definite working and you can also go a bit like wider. You can also say, okay, this is the first version where only five were released, like the first one you it in a token and you have like a second copy, which is not that which is more common. So it's less valuable because people say, okay, I want to have the first version.

 

00:22:00:05 - 00:22:10:02

Alexander Valtingojer

So you also have that system, but also for the creator, you can implement systems. Like every time the book resets, he gets a part of the earnings. So also creators are more incentivized to do it.

 

00:22:10:17 - 00:22:32:01

Christian Soschner

This would be the second question. I have six month contracts that stay a little bit, 58 weeks. The NFT first, because it works in real life. When you think of famous people, for example, I mean, just imagine that Bill Gates is an avid reader when he sells books he has read and before his notes in it, I'm pretty sure there's a market for that.

 

00:22:32:04 - 00:22:50:24

Christian Soschner

And I'm pretty sure that also for for famous books, the first the first version of Moby Dick, for example, or the first version of Ernest Hemingway, I mean, they have a price on the market. And so what NFT and please correct me if I'm wrong with NFT is doing is just replicating what works in the real world into the digital world.

 

00:22:50:24 - 00:23:05:12

Christian Soschner

So now all digital books are unique and I can purchase the first version of the book called The First NFT of the book. I can also make notes in the book and transfer the entire book in a unique way to the next reader. Yes.

 

00:23:06:20 - 00:23:20:19

Alexander Valtingojer

Exactly. That's possible. Like I said, you can that notes, you can see who read the book before. So it's sort of like the history behind the digital version of the book. And you can like do nice additions to it. Like it can be a key to so that there's like unlimited potential.

 

00:23:20:20 - 00:23:23:16

Christian Soschner

I mean, I mean, that's terrific too, because this is interesting.

 

00:23:23:18 - 00:23:24:12

Alexander Valtingojer

I have always like.

 

00:23:25:02 - 00:23:52:17

Christian Soschner

Yeah, I just I just interrupt you. Sorry for that. But if this kind of books, for example, Ray Dalio book just imagine. I mean, I'm pretty sure Warren Buffett read a lot of books to become one of the best investors. And I'll just imagine him 100 years in the future. And in investor reads a book who then becomes famous and you own a version that were owned by these investors.

 

00:23:52:17 - 00:24:04:14

Christian Soschner

So I think this would be a tremendous uptick in value in 15. And if you can really make it traceable so that you see who were the owners in the history of one particular book, because this is completely different story. Real world.

 

00:24:05:01 - 00:24:31:11

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, Yeah. Like I said, I would say it basically it takes what the real world has like this unique cast as the exchange ability, and that's a couple of layers to it because it's because it's data. You can extend it in many ways. So like you really have a history who read the book. You can at additional features to it, like you basically can make this book exchange that they're also always got some things that you can also like add long to London to it automatically.

 

00:24:31:11 - 00:24:58:02

Christian Soschner

I think this is the second interesting part, what you mentioned, the smart contracts, because we're going to find out you again and make some sense. Statistically, I think by copyright law, I'm not allowed to commercially resell that book. So I might be as a private person, it might be my favorite that I can sell it at the same price or to another friend, but I'm not allowed to do it commercially.

 

00:24:58:11 - 00:25:17:07

Christian Soschner

But Ray Dalio will never gets a cent out of it. So if I resell that book first, I have to check. Of course, if it's legal and if it's possible if I don't recommend it to anything. But Ray Dalio won't see anything. As far as you understand your explanation around the smart contracts, you take it into it, it'll be that briefly.

 

00:25:17:19 - 00:25:30:21

Christian Soschner

Well, this would be a digital version. You can design a smart contract around the NFT to make sure that's the right. Always get a certain percentage. For example, 10% of the resetting is that's the right understanding of smart contracts, basically.

 

00:25:30:22 - 00:25:49:23

Alexander Valtingojer

Yes. Yeah, you can do it like that. Basically what a smart contract is. It just automates an agreement between two parties. So let's say we two agree, Hey, I'm going to give you my book, but if you sell it to somebody else, I get 10%. But normally in the real life, I would just have to trust you that you give me that 10%.

 

00:25:49:23 - 00:26:16:02

Alexander Valtingojer

But because it's code, we automate you the middleman. We just basically just like, send it to me. And we can like this idea of automating trusts contracts, basically, it can go way broader. We can basically remove all, all the middlemen so you can imagine can theoretically be automated away with smart contracts, like why do you need a bank, which is just me moving basically money and assets between a couple of parties.

 

00:26:16:05 - 00:26:18:05

Alexander Valtingojer

You can just do it code wise. Theoretically.

 

00:26:19:03 - 00:26:37:12

Christian Soschner

I don't personally think it's it's not replacing the middle man. I think it's just increasing trust between the parties. If it's just let's just say it at the book, it's like four, four, four, five for a second. Don't show that I have to read understanding and I'm tapping now right into your know how knowledge it is. Far better than mine is.

 

00:26:39:00 - 00:27:00:24

Christian Soschner

Ray Dalio, for example, he wrote this book, and let's imagine Warren Buffett bought it and Warren Buffett became famous. I'm pretty sure the price goes up. So if your example, it means if Warren Buffett, then takes this book and say, this book made me famous and I became the best investor because of this book, he then could potentially sell it not for $20, but for $1 million.

 

00:27:01:10 - 00:27:23:01

Christian Soschner

And the smart contract behind it makes sure that Ray Dalio gets 10% of this 1 million, just as just a touch upon number when the purchase is in a library, for example, this would be the middleman that you put it in the library and the book sits down, said, Look, I'm in default. This Warren Buffett is is recorded as the owner.

 

00:27:23:01 - 00:27:36:08

Christian Soschner

It made him famous. Here you have the statement. It's also an NFT and you can rent this book for a limited period of time and you can read it. And also in that case, it would make sure that Ray Dalio gets 10% of the rental fees then, so you rent it out.

 

00:27:36:08 - 00:27:54:05

Alexander Valtingojer

Into your bill it all and blockchain technology. Yes, you can. You can build it like that. You can also and basically library could also do a smart contract that you can read it for ten days and then the token automatically goes back to that wallet and then the reader has no access to it anymore. And I think the issue of giving back the book, you can automate it.

 

00:27:54:10 - 00:28:21:21

Christian Soschner

I think the problem in real life is not the middlemen, it's just the complexity of executing commission based contracts at scale in real life. And when you when you replace it with a digital version about it's ultimate, it's automated. So in real life, I mean, just imagine a library that has hundreds, thousands of books, big library, they would need to track in real life every single transaction, which practically is impossible.

 

00:28:21:22 - 00:28:24:04

Christian Soschner

So it's it's it's it's it's not.

 

00:28:24:04 - 00:28:47:16

Alexander Valtingojer

I agree to some extent because in that example you basically could just automate away the library's code. So you could, for example, send that book off Ray Dalio to smart contract. And I basically just ask, is this to read it? And then I get it for ten days and pay a commission to a smart contract, which automatically ends up in the library, which makes the market more efficient to what degree?

 

00:28:47:23 - 00:29:24:10

Christian Soschner

And I think this is the unique invention around this NFT smart contract space that you first time in the human history, you have this possibility. I think before with paper contracts it was next to impossible to go back 30 years in time. So it's not much. It's 40 years in human society. There were no computers, so it would have really meant people would have needed to sit down and go through paper contracts at scale and pay out 10% and 10% and 30 cent a decent person in a world which that was mostly used to physical currency and digital currency.

 

00:29:24:14 - 00:29:46:08

Christian Soschner

Now, with smart contract, we have a lot more possibilities. It doesn't necessarily mean to replace the middlemen, but the middlemen can execute the smart contracts at scale, very efficient. So just a big delivery case. I mean, it's $0.10, $0.20, but it builds up for the right. And so 100 libraries are doing the same thing and making sure that the writer, every time gets a commission.

 

00:29:46:08 - 00:29:47:15

Christian Soschner

It's a great book.

 

00:29:48:03 - 00:30:08:17

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, like I agree to the extent that I think the middlemen can just be codes and that that that example I think in some some cases it always makes sense to have a middleman if it's more like really specific knowledge base. They do a service, I think especially for service, if it's just an intermediate between two people with try to exchange something, then in my opinion, you don't need it.

 

00:30:10:16 - 00:30:33:24

Alexander Valtingojer

What you mentioned also before, like with two small commissions, that's like a lot of work. I mean you could automated also in a centralized way, but then do you have two system of interoperability issues of ability? And I think also that's a that's one of the key ideas behind. And if we agree on that standard, we have the technology we use, the central system us as the base, and that's the standard.

 

00:30:33:24 - 00:30:56:11

Alexander Valtingojer

And everybody can access and basically build on top of that. So I don't like with with a central system, we would have again, that is a copy which I write in your database. I have to trust in the database is transparent and you can do it to database. And everybody has his own system. But with with tokens, a basic standard is in blockchain and I don't need centralized systems to do it.

 

00:30:56:11 - 00:31:19:23

Alexander Valtingojer

And that makes it more efficient, efficient on a large scale. And that's actually also super interesting. What you mentioned before with the small commissions, with the idea of Internet of Things. So you could like also implement this token system with like really super smart transactions in the 000. $0.01 area. So which is never efficient to do for a centralized institution.

 

00:31:20:08 - 00:31:31:02

Alexander Valtingojer

But if you have block or not just in scale, like in large scale, and then you have again the issue of centralized ownership, but you could like automate a lot of these things. Also with crypto, I like blockchain.

 

00:31:31:02 - 00:31:56:21

Christian Soschner

I agree to everything is said just when I was writing, I had this idea of this recording, for example. I mean, just imagine you become famous for years down the road. You are the Austrian Jeff Bezos created similar wealth like him out of Austria, which is very challenging, and I have the first recording of this interview. So as an NFT, would that be possible to also use that that comes about this episode?

 

00:31:57:11 - 00:31:57:19

Christian Soschner

Okay.

 

00:31:58:14 - 00:32:15:08

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, you can easily do that. You connected the NFT to that and say, okay, this is the ownership of that video. Like, like I said, you kind of have to define what's the use case of it, what I'm allowed to share to begin, like do whatever I want. Then you basically have a use case to the NFT and you can sell it.

 

00:32:15:24 - 00:32:43:05

Alexander Valtingojer

So we did something similar here like giving out or Christmas. And if he's so we created like artworks and get get a gift to them out like with another like how is it called this Chrismukkah Christmas calendar. You know what I mean. The zero 224 of until Christmas you get out every day and if you are the last one was actually you have to write to meeting with me so you can use that NFT for the meeting.

 

00:32:43:11 - 00:33:02:19

Alexander Valtingojer

I said also, I mean, if nobody uses it and like, like I keep up a promise, but there's also some trust in it and then you could trade at that around that ownership of that contract goes around. And if like a company becomes big, I don't know, I become a serial founder who knows what happens then? This increases in value and you have a trade of a good of it.

 

00:33:03:04 - 00:33:12:24

Alexander Valtingojer

So to a certain degree, what also like this NFT and crypto kind of enables us is to make everything which has value tradeable and exchangeable.

 

00:33:13:08 - 00:33:21:01

Christian Soschner

Everything that has value becomes trade and exchange over even meeting slots.

 

00:33:21:01 - 00:33:22:03

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, meeting slots.

 

00:33:23:08 - 00:33:36:04

Christian Soschner

Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, Warren Buffett just coming back to Warren Buffett often for charity purposes. He sells lunches with Warren Buffett for, I think $600,000 I read on the Internet bidding system.

 

00:33:36:08 - 00:33:36:12

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah.

 

00:33:37:20 - 00:34:01:03

Christian Soschner

Okay. Well, so you can do basically that as an NFT and say, okay, every time when such a lunch is sold at the higher priced in the previous one, the entire Warren Buffett, of course, has to keep his promise and of similar person and automatically the proceeds of the purchase is then transferred to the charity that's encoded into the smart contract.

 

00:34:01:14 - 00:34:20:13

Alexander Valtingojer

You can do it. Then it's trackable, traceable. Everybody sees what's happening, how much value created in end, like for the charity, and you have to stand out. So can exchange it. For example, I could exchange my meeting with Warren Buffett. If you're meeting with Jeff Bezos and with a smart contract, we don't have to trust each other. But I give you the token.

 

00:34:20:13 - 00:34:41:06

Alexander Valtingojer

Then you don't give me that. Jeff Bezos One is basically just my contract. Just make sure, okay, we write this, my smart contract, This is it. If Warren Buffett wallet, the token arrives at your wallet. Jeff Bezos What token arrives at my wallet? So we also don't need like some trustee in the middle, which takes both and then exchanges.

 

00:34:41:06 - 00:34:45:10

Alexander Valtingojer

We can just do it because we can exchange everything but among the many.

 

00:34:45:10 - 00:35:20:09

Christian Soschner

Therefore that got it for to create the community, to create that let's let's call it ecosystem economy. We have now a new use case is connected more to the real world. But day was to create the community first and then go to the real world I mean before the internet started creating something rent, movies, writing or photography meant going, becoming part of an industry and relying on this middleman studies at that to make sure that the arts or the painting, that's the art is distributed to the person.

 

00:35:20:13 - 00:35:45:13

Christian Soschner

Now, if the internet something new arrived, this was to create a economy and I mean creating something online in the nineties like blogging, for example, websites. I mean, it started with the internet. There was no possibility to make money with that. Now, I think YouTube has a system for creators. They pay for fuels. Also, Facebook has a similar system, TikTok has a similar system.

 

00:35:47:02 - 00:36:04:20

Christian Soschner

It's getting better for creators, online creators, and now obviously NFT, if you gets to push into into the next level of the create the economy that you can the creators can do a lot more with that. So your niche videos and coding smart contracts into that is that is just the right summary for the creative economy the power of image.

 

00:36:04:21 - 00:36:25:02

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, I definitely see it like that. And I also think it's really a golden area for creators. I think a lot of time is spent consuming content nowadays, especially with optimization. It's got to be more and more, and it makes things also more efficient and more favorable for the creator because now you have a lot of middlemen always eating again.

 

00:36:25:07 - 00:36:44:16

Alexander Valtingojer

Like for example, MusiCares, the record labels which actually go under big chunks. But if you do it to an NFT, you're basically your kid. That's right. As I led the crowdfunding and everybody who basically invested in gets a share of the proceedings as a token again. So it makes a lot of things. Yeah, like I said, it's the golden era of the great economy.

 

00:36:44:16 - 00:36:46:04

Alexander Valtingojer

You got it right now.

 

00:36:46:04 - 00:37:10:08

Christian Soschner

I mean, if you consider cash becoming more cash streams coming to musicians than ever before, Steve Jobs was one of the first ones who reorganize the music industry with his iTunes approach where it was possible to buy single songs from from a competition before it was necessary to buy 10 to 15 songs on a compact disc to just listen to one.

 

00:37:10:12 - 00:37:44:18

Christian Soschner

And then Steve Jobs invented the iPods and iTunes, and I could start speculating. See these songs, which I believe in the end created more cash streams because it didn't buy for singles songs. An entire complex disc out of cash reasons back in the nineties as a student, when it look now at the NFT space, I think one point of criticism was that Spotify, for example, I mean you need a lot of downloads from Spotify to make money as a musician, but with NFT, each songs, each song becomes an original.

 

00:37:44:18 - 00:37:55:02

Christian Soschner

So musicians then can also start trading the original uploads to Spotify and can create cash streams around state platforms. Is that a possible scenario?

 

00:37:55:02 - 00:38:16:19

Alexander Valtingojer

Theoretically, yes. Yes, I think to a certain degree. And if it's become commodities like, everything will be somehow tokenized and you can do so many crazy things of it. Like really? Okay, that's derived of the music that they are on the earnings. But you can also say the first play is an own NFT and that shows the first play that happens.

 

00:38:16:21 - 00:38:17:24

Alexander Valtingojer

Then you can trade that again.

 

00:38:18:17 - 00:38:44:04

Christian Soschner

I'm staying with these questions a bit longer because I think this is the unique term that we have in 2022, in 2021 will be had in 2021 compared to 2017 when the last, let's say, crypto euphoria came to the market. It didn't see any use cases back then. So I mean, basically it was by cryptocurrency since whenever I ask the question, okay, what kind of talk if it what's the use case behind it.

 

00:38:44:04 - 00:38:51:21

Christian Soschner

Still the use case that got off it was can buy and hold it and you can sell it and that was it basically and.

 

00:38:52:19 - 00:38:53:01

Alexander Valtingojer

But.

 

00:38:54:03 - 00:39:14:19

Christian Soschner

I mean it's it's my plant understanding because I started doing research in cryptocurrencies more professionally back in 2017. So the first there was nothing there was nothing to just buying a token basically. Now going to talk with the experts like you, they come up with a lot of ideas for use cases, what you can do with that, what the technology is capable of doing.

 

00:39:14:19 - 00:39:32:04

Christian Soschner

And this is a bit game changing, game changer in the entire industry. We talked about NFT for talked about smart and email opinion such at yes, how we can use smart contracts, how we can use NFT didn't exist back in 2017.

 

00:39:32:04 - 00:40:05:23

Alexander Valtingojer

That actually was one really good idea which because of that boom got a bit got a lot of criticism. Yeah I see all model so but the general idea that I can raise funds with usage and value within the platform so that I cited future value of the platform to a token and kept proceeding now in as a company I think that is actually a genius model is not that used anymore nowadays, which I'm a bit surprised because if you like, it's overdue to happen again because it makes sense for a lot of business models.

 

00:40:06:19 - 00:40:27:03

Alexander Valtingojer

But I think that was one of the good applications of okay, we build platforms and we have to give out talk and tokens for access value within the platform. But it didn't have to breakthrough because there was too much hype and too little applications which went on actually built because, okay, I give you a token, you can do whatever that on the platform or the platform was nothing.

 

00:40:27:12 - 00:40:49:16

Christian Soschner

So I think what was missing with this model was something like an NFT. I remember the talks I had back in 2017 to 2019 around ICOs was used by companies that didn't have anything to do with the crypto space. I mean, it was life science, it was digital companies and they had the idea to use token to replace equity around investment rounds.

 

00:40:49:23 - 00:41:19:07

Christian Soschner

Yes. So When an investor invests in a company and buys equity, the investor has a guaranteed share in the company. And the odd thing with a few of these ICOs that I saw were that investors who purchased that token that was unique to that company couldn't do anything with the talk. We didn't even guarantee a share in the company, so it was basically more or less future promise of revenues, but it didn't guarantee ownership.

 

00:41:19:07 - 00:41:36:06

Christian Soschner

And I think with the NFT now, the game changes because NFT now are produced in a way to guarantee ownership to an asset. So in August and if you see the theoretical potential to streamline even equity rounds of business insurance.

 

00:41:37:05 - 00:41:43:19

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, that wouldn't then not necessarily be an NFT because it's not unique. You can have like multiple shares of it.

 

00:41:44:04 - 00:41:44:13

Christian Soschner

Okay.

 

00:41:45:03 - 00:42:06:01

Alexander Valtingojer

But they took that's actually already happening. Like Tokenized shares is something which is currently a lot, especially with this classic models that we've created. We have a bit more flexibility because there's not so much regulation, but for equity rounds we have, yeah, we have a lot of regulation around who's the owner. It's not that easy to replicate on tokens in Germany.

 

00:42:06:01 - 00:42:31:22

Alexander Valtingojer

We now have a new law since I think two or three months where we have two token registry, you can put financial instruments on tokens. They have a registered Wet'suwet'en, so it will need some, some more work on regulatory side that we have this classic ownership models also based as a token, but that's going to definitely happen because the token in a autumn in its ultimate state is just the perfect standard layer to do it.

 

00:42:31:24 - 00:43:03:19

Christian Soschner

And indeed it I mean, I think it's coming because the problems that I saw with this book I see still with depravity is they are expensive. On one hand, when I look at business angels here in Austria or in Central Europe, you should have think round of participation of a business analyst between 10,000 €250,000 per round, 250,000, to my opinion, is on the higher end, which just needs to have a look and the of do on the distribution of wealth in the area.

 

00:43:04:01 - 00:43:29:23

Christian Soschner

So the usual round sizes that make sense because it's actually I'm at the 1020 or 30,000 when you put two or three business angels 400,000 in the company you'll still have the same expenses like similar expenses, like going for a CBC for 10 million tokens. There's a potential to make it easier, especially for private companies to exchange than the shares, I mean, or try to sell shares in a limited company here in Austria.

 

00:43:29:23 - 00:44:05:19

Alexander Valtingojer

It's still very that's something I was researching a couple of weeks ago. I was like researching a bit. I took this investing model for them. Fractional ownership of collectibles Y and Z arrays was like all this new crazy ideas about how we can, like, make everything investable at an interesting concept I found. I don't know how they legally set it up is, you know, like a lot of companies have these e sub shares that you have like as an employee early stock options in the company and you create secondaries around it to tokenize this and then could for example somebody could sell his student stock which is still like an Aesop and buy a Bitpanda

 

00:44:05:19 - 00:44:42:24

Alexander Valtingojer

stock which is also Stalinism. And that that's a lot happening in that direction I think is but the demand is a bit like I mentioned before there is that needs a bit more regulation because it's really hard. You always have to come up with strange constructs to like get it done, that somehow you have to participate participation. But it really it's a lot of is derivatives and loopholes and I think you need that clear background so as not to react for example that they have to go to not to read to like exchange in a limited company shares you basically you could automated through blockchain because you have to prove who owns what and how

 

00:44:42:24 - 00:45:05:06

Alexander Valtingojer

it's changed. Like it's even better than a paper, which is somebody I stop, but it's like the legal case is not there yet. So that's always a blocking factor for it. That's again like I think great economy is again the ones who are going to like benefit from this sort of ecosystem deal is because there is not that regulatory like overload is happening when you create a song or create a picture.

 

00:45:05:06 - 00:45:23:02

Christian Soschner

I totally agree to what you say. And I think also the governments and regulators already are aware of the situation that a lot is possible. A lot of markets can be organized in a more efficient way using the technology. And they already the deregulation processes, which in my opinion is a good thing. It's a good thing. It helps.

 

00:45:23:02 - 00:45:23:22

Christian Soschner

It helps the idea.

 

00:45:23:24 - 00:46:01:20

Alexander Valtingojer

I definitely agree with it like, well, I mean, we know the playground and have a common regulation ideally worldwide, but at least you what? And we know how to build products which are scalable and otherwise. You always have to maneuver national laws which like really blocks innovation because it's almost like a barrier which you have to overcome. And then you solved it for, let's say, Germany, but it's not solved also and crypto and like and if I what I don't like crypto as a general exit global concept it's a global borderless concept we just need a playground I we're not okay this this we can connect to the real life assets to it.

 

00:46:01:20 - 00:46:09:06

Alexander Valtingojer

So it's also a real life assets, but generally it's a global concept how you live it. Like every person in the internet is part of this ecosystem.

 

00:46:10:00 - 00:46:28:08

Christian Soschner

I mean, for the questions in the brainstorming, we are doing right now is for the listeners who ask, Why should I buy cryptocurrencies these days? And thinking about conversation in 2017 18, as you sat there in the was this yes you can do in Tokyo and that's it. There was one use case. One potentially was because the idea there was not nothing.

 

00:46:28:08 - 00:46:31:07

Christian Soschner

It was just buy and hold. And now we have a lot of ideas.

 

00:46:32:22 - 00:46:34:09

Alexander Valtingojer

That bitcoin bitcoin on concept.

 

00:46:34:17 - 00:46:57:15

Christian Soschner

I think it's a bit later. But now the ecosystem produces a lot of ideas, a lot of use cases and there is also investment capital flowing into this area, venture capital. So it's growing, it's evolving, it's developing and we've and we have this first part open. We have and have to have smart contracts. And then you mentioned initially web free.

 

00:46:58:05 - 00:47:04:11

Christian Soschner

And I would add slash metaverse is my understanding, to save that web 3.0 and metaverse, our exchange over.

 

00:47:06:21 - 00:47:09:15

Alexander Valtingojer

That and there's no real definition of those. And then.

 

00:47:10:08 - 00:47:11:22

Christian Soschner

Give me your give me that definition.

 

00:47:11:22 - 00:47:42:14

Alexander Valtingojer

Of the with its own definition to a certain degree. I wouldn't actually put them in the same bucket. I would try how to find it like really short lived. The metaverse is for me my life. So my digital identity in an ecosystem where I can like where we can like communicate as a digital persona. So for example, I would say my Reddit name and that I exchange ideas with people and this forums, the Reddit Reddit system is basically a metaverse or something, right?

 

00:47:42:21 - 00:48:11:21

Alexander Valtingojer

And now it's going a bit like famous with the idea of iOS, which is coming with a bit One Future That Trip Web 3.0 is for me more this ownership. This is like wallet. This my my ownership in that ecosystem which connects to different parts. So to me it was a for me the room and like where I move around the communicate with people and basically that for free is basically my back where I have all my stuff in it.

 

00:48:12:22 - 00:48:17:01

Christian Soschner

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

 

00:48:17:12 - 00:48:39:11

Alexander Valtingojer

Which kind of band connects like and I have my key card and I go to the Twitter metaverse and do something like the key card is on the web 3.0 that that concept can enter. But the meta was then moving like the room where I am. Then like exchanging ideas, communicate with people basically live to a certain degree is to me to us in my SO.

 

00:48:39:21 - 00:48:47:15

Christian Soschner

That when read 3.0 then is the technical area so the technical solution the bucket for what the technology is.

 

00:48:48:05 - 00:49:15:05

Alexander Valtingojer

I would define defined by free really asset ownership, like digital ownership. I can own stuff which is still that's the new concept of 3.0, which I need to connect at the metaverse as we do this. It's an old idea in my opinion, because Reddit, Instagram or these social networks already have it, but now it's like really distinctive to its digital space and also its digital spaces and market with VR like interconnections between communities.

 

00:49:15:05 - 00:49:17:21

Alexander Valtingojer

So it's really the digital living area.

 

00:49:18:23 - 00:49:43:17

Christian Soschner

Yeah, I was yesterday I saw a post from Lena Spear Yunus on LinkedIn where he a concert in the metaverse and that it's the comment well it looks like Fortnite or call of duty less guns but we had that already years ago or like EverQuest we filed the fantasy fantasy I.

 

00:49:43:17 - 00:49:45:16

Alexander Valtingojer

Could live actually that was like Superliga.

 

00:49:45:16 - 00:49:46:17

Christian Soschner

Yes, yes, that's true.

 

00:49:47:07 - 00:50:17:05

Alexander Valtingojer

Some similar concept and also had like an on currency and ecosystem access, I would say way ahead of time. But we had it already. I was I think it's a myth. There was a bit of a rebranding of like how social social this live to certain degree. So I think the evolution of that is way more important to like, like, I don't know, like right now it's a far superior concept because it's like this ownership model and we already see it.

 

00:50:17:05 - 00:50:40:11

Alexander Valtingojer

We discuss with NFT space, that's MAP 3.0 and it made to us is a lot of a rebranding of VR and social communities. It's for sure comment and I'm also super excited and sure that it's going to be interconnected, but that's what we what I mentioned, like at the beginning of the time, the metaverse is def at the stage with a lot of hype, people saying, okay, that's civility.

 

00:50:40:11 - 00:50:58:21

Alexander Valtingojer

We're going to live like nice and amazing and moving around, Whoa, it's a matrix, basically. But it's it's still it's on time. It's going to happen for sure. And like 99.99% sure if there's another blackout happening or something and this is going to happen, but not today and not tomorrow. It's about time.

 

00:50:59:08 - 00:51:19:09

Christian Soschner

I think metaphor metaverse is a vision and I think within our terms around vision. So very important to connect people, to work in the same direction. And this is the change in the game that we have right now. It's similar to the Internet. I mean, it's a term Internet was coined. People could connect to a common vision or to a shared vision.

 

00:51:19:09 - 00:51:48:01

Christian Soschner

It could work in the same direction together, which made a lot of things happen. I see it also with the metaverse. I mean, when I look at the life science industry, for example, or health care and health tech, with all these gadgets that are now in development, I mean, just imagine the Ocean Hospital setting with a very challenging structure, becoming the search and computing experts from all over the world into a virtual room where they talk about the best solution for the patient.

 

00:51:48:11 - 00:52:12:19

Christian Soschner

And we are even I mean, with 5G, for example, in of our even research and in Brazil, let's just assume that the world's best surgeon is a woman in Brazil in the middle of nowhere, she could connect with the devices on the operation table for the patient and they could do this of their work, have extra. So I think a lot would be possible in the future.

 

00:52:12:19 - 00:52:20:08

Christian Soschner

And Metaverse is this vision. Yeah. About all that connects people to work in a similar direction. We see it the same way as it did to me, something.

 

00:52:20:09 - 00:52:33:20

Alexander Valtingojer

I definitely I wouldn't say it's just work, but it's definitely exactly that. Like this future room where we interconnect and basically replace a certain degree the role. But with very communicate and exchange and work lives now.

 

00:52:34:10 - 00:52:36:16

Christian Soschner

Star Trek. Star Trek Holodeck.

 

00:52:37:11 - 00:53:01:04

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah. Is it? I don't know like if you know the movie on ready player one as a as a bit of fun sure But it actually shows really what is going to come to degree and it's going to be the super hyper realistic environment where we can move around and feel also and I know for a lot of people it sounds I think a lot of people think it's coming too soon.

 

00:53:01:05 - 00:53:22:20

Alexander Valtingojer

So there's a lot of froyo, but it's also not that far away. If you look at like especially gaming is a bit of a like a like a role model and it's in that area like games nowadays, they look so super realistic and it's just getting better and better and like it really renders the super realistic areas in real time.

 

00:53:23:04 - 00:53:54:21

Alexander Valtingojer

Then you just have to look. That's one technology. What's happening like that that we can like generate virtual realities in real time and with superior like resolution and graphic design, then you have 5G, which is happening, but you say, okay, I can like outsource the processing power and basically we can connect real time without delay, without any latency being the same room And all this process in which we need to like generate that area is also done in a cloud, like the data stream is continuous.

 

00:53:55:08 - 00:54:23:09

Alexander Valtingojer

And then another trend is also I technology. Like if you look nowadays with like artificial intelligence personas like, like the GP to freeze like a key word us and then they can have communications with AI they almost don't notice is in the AI. So it's also happening that and if you combine it all together, your basic individual worlds, like, like hang out with my friends which look whatever they want to, I want because it can be random in real time and everything.

 

00:54:23:16 - 00:54:43:10

Alexander Valtingojer

And I have a AI, which I don't know, is it like real human? Is is not a really human. And basically it's like a servant in a in a system. So there's a lot happening in that direction. And actually sometimes it sounds crazy, but if you like, really look closely what is happening. All this different area of technology is coming and it's actually way far.

 

00:54:43:20 - 00:54:50:12

Alexander Valtingojer

Like it's I think it's something closer than a lot of people think, especially this interconnection of all these technologies.

 

00:54:50:22 - 00:55:01:08

Christian Soschner

I think this would be a question for Lex Freedman. Artificial intelligence, as a servant, what happens if a servant develops consciousness, digital consciousness now.

 

00:55:01:10 - 00:55:23:06

Alexander Valtingojer

So that I can send you something? So but it will like some guys have discussions with to free eyes and basically then they ask all that last after a while, after it's trained a bit. If they are A.I. is conscious, then she explains the concept what in her opinion is consciousness? And she says, If this is that your explanation too, then I would say I'm conscious.

 

00:55:23:13 - 00:55:45:13

Alexander Valtingojer

And then like if people were like, and also like Watson was like, okay, what? The fact because a complete image made sounds like somebody will comes up with their own ideas and kind of compress emotions and everything which she can but fake. And then it goes like, okay, this is consciousness if you define it like that. And a lot of interesting concept like an interesting reside with this test is also a I can learn to like it.

 

00:55:46:08 - 00:56:04:13

Alexander Valtingojer

So in this talks I started also like a bit but it's a joke and then you kind of come also up with this question like they can lie to you so you don't know what's true and what is was and is like almost impossible to read what's behind the code. It is also, for sure, dangerous concept. A certain degree.

 

00:56:04:13 - 00:56:33:18

Alexander Valtingojer

But yeah, I'm always more like the optimist that I think this is actually really good development happening in the general area. I think especially for an environment also because if we move bodies in a room sort of like collaboration, we basically would use a lot of waste which is not needed for short term communication exchanges. But on the other hand, on the social side, it's also not that nice, if we like, over the long term because human touch doesn't connections will be less in the future.

 

00:56:33:18 - 00:56:42:22

Alexander Valtingojer

I think like just, I don't know, like a regular handshake, something like that. Just like, just like touching people. And this direct connection with people.

 

00:56:42:22 - 00:57:13:16

Christian Soschner

We already there are researchers working on that problem. I had a podcast episode back in 2020 with a professor from UCL in London where he's developing devices that replicate touching people. So that might make the Internet touchable. That's really interesting. You have to I think number 20 something if to look it up. I spent more time on the introduction because it answers a very important question and that is why is it important now to get into the crypto world?

 

00:57:13:16 - 00:57:35:15

Christian Soschner

So I wanted to know if there were enough ideas and use cases out there on the market that would help people understand that it makes sense to get accustomed to cryptocurrencies more than they were before. So, for example, I mean, it's just that in 20 1617 there were a few use cases and now they're getting more and more.

 

00:57:35:15 - 00:57:58:23

Christian Soschner

It's more of an ecosystem evolves. The question that's still open is, I mean, the cryptocurrencies are the basis layer for all these developments that we have. So to make things unique in the metaverse, to make things unique and to create the economy, you need some some tokens as a base layer that help creating the smart contracts around this physical or digital world.

 

00:57:59:20 - 00:58:11:04

Christian Soschner

The theme was first problem that I encountered back in 2017 was how can affect currencies? And it was a really challenging patch then. What has evolved since 2017?

 

00:58:12:05 - 00:58:42:22

Alexander Valtingojer

I think the industry has evolved a lot, especially in this. Like like I said, access to this, this things like buying Bitcoin out of fear nowadays is surprising. Like you can easily download whatever app like a Coinbase app, download it, charge your credit card, buy some bitcoin, you have bitcoin. So so that part is super easy. I also think on a more technical path like crypto wallets and connecting them with different platforms to execute smart contracts, but way easier.

 

00:58:42:22 - 00:59:03:15

Alexander Valtingojer

If you look at Metamask, it's a great browser extension wallet which you can use in a lot of these web free platforms which are already built on that them. So I would say the access to the asset itself, super, super easy to access to the technology is far superior. What it was. But I was still a bit like Charlie and Alex is not quite them.

 

00:59:04:01 - 00:59:25:14

Alexander Valtingojer

I think a big challenge currently. It's like an investing space and there's also what we are doing basically is there's so much happening, like the market is evolving so quickly. It's really this innovation push in so many directions and it's really hard to keep up with it. Like, I mean, like I'm like spending most of my day basically researching, thinking about what happens with the world.

 

00:59:26:01 - 00:59:53:01

Alexander Valtingojer

And even I can't keep up with everything which happens. So it's so I see it as an asset class, which I definitely do. It's for sure not easy to participate in easy menu. And just like passively, I would say. So that's a bit what we are doing. And yeah, so we are trying to put that ETF approach to digital assets so that you don't like say, okay, what is now Solana, Cardano X infinity, what is happening there, what are developing?

 

00:59:53:01 - 01:00:10:11

Alexander Valtingojer

Does it make sense? What is both a asset? And if you make sounds like a lot of buzzwords, that's what the industry is about. And what we are trying is basically break them down and make it more like category in thematic investing. So I want to invest in a defi space. I believe decentralized finance systems make sense, and this is something for the future.

 

01:00:10:17 - 01:00:33:00

Alexander Valtingojer

Instead of buying a single tokens, you can easily buy an index of these tokens. But we basically do the research, create this portfolio and manage the same fantasy and metaverse and we're going to go deeper. Also going in this large community items, music rides, gaming items. So really all this new innovative asset classes which are basic now involving making this super, super easy.

 

01:00:34:01 - 01:01:00:24

Christian Soschner

This what is this? This I can confirm, but you say 2017 bitcoin. I hold bitcoin so in the yes and the tried to buy them so they were interesting based of a crypto ATM. So bitcoin ATMs with commissions, they think of ten 15%. So folks purchase it before. Okay. Now I know dual states. Then I discovered bitpanda and that is covered Coinbase.

 

01:01:00:24 - 01:01:34:02

Christian Soschner

We shop at a commission model stand this ATMs, but basically it was bitcoin and if you and in my world no other tokens existed. When I dig deeper into the cryptocurrencies, again, with the beginning of the pandemic, I had some time to kill. So I looked again at this in March, April, May 20, 20. There were a few more when I opened all the websites Cryptocurrency prices, charts, Coinmarketcap.

 

01:01:34:08 - 01:01:51:00

Christian Soschner

I think they have about 10,000, roughly 10,000 coins listed on their website. And as far as I understood your explanation to your company COIN opinion, this is exactly the reason why you founded COIN opinion. Is that right?

 

01:01:51:00 - 01:02:17:15

Alexander Valtingojer

So yeah, basically to break it down is exactly that. I think it's really a huge opportunity to this market. I think one of the biggest technology involved developments of our like area error and it was also for me in 2017 I got like really into crypto in 2007 team started 2015 like by my first bitcoin but got like really caught up with the industry in 2017 just because it got so crazy.

 

01:02:18:07 - 01:02:37:17

Alexander Valtingojer

And the biggest issue I kind of encountered was I really want to participate in it, but I don't want to spend my whole day like figuring out what is happening there. And I look at a lot and solutions like, is this on some ETF? Because it was like investing stock. It's kind of just like invest in ETFs or can somebody else can live.

 

01:02:38:04 - 01:02:57:20

Alexander Valtingojer

And then it kind of just developed out of this need. We were like a couple of guys would just like to program and build stuff that we try to build a solution for that. And in the end it resulted in this asset management approach. So we say, okay, we built super simple products to have access to specific domains in digital asset space.

 

01:02:59:01 - 01:03:06:24

Alexander Valtingojer

So it's really like cannabis ETF. You buy it also outside of stocks or tech ETFs, just the same for digital assets, it's really easy to break down.

 

01:03:07:15 - 01:03:28:05

Christian Soschner

Good, good points that you were saying it's roly poly mentioned. That is some book you said similar to what you said, it's the birth of a new asset class and it's a unique moment in human history because it doesn't happen every year. I think the last the latest as it comes, I think was invented 1600 something or 1500 something, which basically is the stock market.

 

01:03:29:01 - 01:03:46:00

Christian Soschner

So it's way back. And now we have cryptocurrencies which made it initially difficult to understand because it's something entirely new, but it's getting better. The problem that you take in Always Companion is exactly that. I mean, if you want to keep up with that space, it's entering you asset class. It's like trying to keep up with the entire stock market.

 

01:03:46:07 - 01:04:08:21

Christian Soschner

It's practically impossible for people who only want to invest, and they also want to invest in the stock market without doing proper research or research data. They can choose, for example, Berkshire Hathaway, Warren Buffett. He has a team who's doing that or buy a trust. The S&P 500 ETF, when goes, for example, at its low cost and invests in the entire US economy.

 

01:04:09:00 - 01:04:10:23

Christian Soschner

And we have similar products now.

 

01:04:10:23 - 01:04:21:18

Alexander Valtingojer

We have like industry specific what cannabis gaming blockchain. I did a lot of specific to matic ETFs from iShares like this market is super easy nowadays if you want.

 

01:04:21:21 - 01:04:29:13

Christian Soschner

And you are companies. Exactly doing a similar thing with cryptocurrencies. It's you have it's called ETF basically.

 

01:04:30:03 - 01:04:48:09

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, like ETF has a legal term. So we in the end you can kind of imagine it like an ETF. So exchange traded fund like a fund. Basically what we do is we really buy the assets in the background and hold it on a wallet for the customers. So it's so it's like an ETF. You have like to write against the fund.

 

01:04:48:21 - 01:05:06:00

Alexander Valtingojer

For us, it's like you really have a wallet to our platform where basically the cryptocurrencies are sold. We just make we just had you have to basically find the good products in that domain and how to do it. Investor Like the idea of yeah, the idea concept is exactly the ETF approach.

 

01:05:06:08 - 01:05:26:02

Christian Soschner

So the value your team adds to this space for investors basically is that you do the research and recommend buy ETF like products to retail investors or institutional investors, which coins in your opinion makes sense to purchase.

 

01:05:26:07 - 01:05:46:01

Alexander Valtingojer

Yes. Is not really recommend a recommendation. So what we really do is like basically we research and put them together in a bundle and you can say, okay, I want to buy that bundle. And within the band we do the research, we rebalance it, we we make quarterly reviews of the project, how to develop, how did the industry develop and that perhaps new projects and it's all database.

 

01:05:46:11 - 01:06:19:04

Alexander Valtingojer

So to do that we created our scoring model for crypto which could because I guess because we are all technical, we always try to like analyze does this with data and in the end we kind of developed a cryptocurrency scoring system where we look at four different parameters to define if it is a good project about project. The first one, I think it's the most exciting one is we scan blockchain data, we look at how many transactions happen there, how many wallets are there, how many smart contract interactions.

 

01:06:19:13 - 01:06:45:05

Alexander Valtingojer

That's the nice thing about crypto and blockchain. It's transparent. You can just look what is happening on the chain and we scanned out and score that. Then the second one is we look at sentimental data. So we believe network effects are super important for these ecosystems so we can read it with our news forums. Discourse like different communities to see, okay, how much does a product gets traction in these communities?

 

01:06:45:09 - 01:07:05:00

Alexander Valtingojer

If it's like in a good path, it's growing. And we also give a goods called there. The first one is we look at developer activities. Basically. We can also open source libraries like GitHub, GitLab and also scan the blockchain directly. Is that any developments down? And if there is a lot happening, we see it as an active product where a lot of people work on it.

 

01:07:05:01 - 01:07:29:12

Alexander Valtingojer

It's also good for scoring. And the first one is the market measurement. We look mostly at how the money is money. A lot of the exchanges is like an is is a product which gets exchanged a lot was a small one, which is like for the different wallets. It doesn't move a lot or is like one person holding 99% of all the assets because there's also a bad sign because then it's like not we decentralized.

 

01:07:29:12 - 01:07:56:07

Alexander Valtingojer

So we scan this all together and basically get up to a scoring. So say, okay, it goes from zero to town. 2000 it was over 600. We included in our in our selection. And then just based on two metrics, we say, okay, this is made the is NFT, this is like Defi. I live together their industries and then you have to portfolio well assets in and the balancing of this portfolio is done as like straightforward we do risk parity balancing.

 

01:07:56:17 - 01:08:25:03

Alexander Valtingojer

I think the most of the modern hedge funds and investment managers do it. You basically just look at volatility. So if like for example, if you have stocks like becoming super volatile, we start reducing the exposure to reduce the risk. That's the index. And you can like say, okay, I want to buy all this knowledge and all this management and do nothing, just go on companion, basically invest with your credit card, buy that portfolio, set up a savings plan and it works.

 

01:08:25:23 - 01:08:31:23

Alexander Valtingojer

And all this work of research and rebalancing and basically managing that fund is done based on the background.

 

01:08:33:03 - 01:08:58:03

Christian Soschner

So the advantage for the retail investor then is, for example, a person has hundred thousand euros to invest to come to the first or the only decision and say, okay, I want to allocate part of my savings to the crypto world, hoping that it goes up and that it creates lasting wealth from a family. And this is the only decision.

 

01:08:58:03 - 01:09:15:09

Christian Soschner

And then the second decision, the first one, the second one is how much. So for example, let's say 20%, and then the Fed's decision is going to your website, looking at their website and their SC for ETFs. So let's call it that way for crypto ETFs.

 

01:09:15:09 - 01:09:16:18

Alexander Valtingojer

If I did this.

 

01:09:16:20 - 01:09:17:20

Christian Soschner

050.

 

01:09:18:03 - 01:09:20:00

Alexander Valtingojer

One is not on the website yet. Like you can just.

 

01:09:20:00 - 01:09:47:16

Christian Soschner

I so we currently I see the picture of cautious investors of think it's the basically the emotional status of the investor then balanced adventurous and the fourth one is more thematically it's NFT and metaverse yes so for example I'm an adventurous investor and say I can risk a lot, so let's just click on it and then you see the development.

 

01:09:47:16 - 01:09:51:00

Christian Soschner

So it's it's right, it exists since January 2021.

 

01:09:51:23 - 01:09:53:24

Alexander Valtingojer

It actually is. It's a January 20, 20.

 

01:09:54:24 - 01:09:59:09

Christian Soschner

Transfer idea and has produced since July of 2021. 109.62%.

 

01:10:00:01 - 01:10:03:18

Alexander Valtingojer

Yep. Could be, but should be read. I don't know the novel I but.

 

01:10:03:18 - 01:10:06:01

Christian Soschner

I just I'm just just reading it from from the website with the.

 

01:10:06:01 - 01:10:07:05

Alexander Valtingojer

President and it's right.

 

01:10:07:21 - 01:10:31:02

Christian Soschner

Which oversaw high risk smart rebalancing CO2 neutral portfolio and then I see the allocation. Yes. And I'm curious, let's go a little bit through these cryptocurrencies and maybe you can shine more light on them and why it makes sense to to include them in an investment thesis. I think in this what I think is the allocation, the biggest allocation, which both percent is Bitcoin.

 

01:10:31:18 - 01:10:34:05

Christian Soschner

And what's your opinion on Bitcoin.

 

01:10:34:05 - 01:11:01:01

Alexander Valtingojer

So first of all, like adventurous portfolios, like we live basically the whole crypto score where we put in the biggest projects and that's you exposure to our scoring model. My opinion on Bitcoin, I'm definitely not a Bitcoin maximalist. So I think that the biggest innovation happening in the whole crypto space is not coming from Bitcoin. It's coming more from the smart contact platforms and token platforms that can create and if to use a etc..

 

01:11:01:02 - 01:11:21:10

Alexander Valtingojer

What we discussed before, where I see the value in Bitcoin is for sure it has the biggest network effect. So as a the most acceptance in the whole industry is towards bitcoin and that is mashable's and also like the institutional adoption is mainly currently happening in the Bitcoin area, all the other assets are still too early now. So that's, that's in one side.

 

01:11:21:23 - 01:11:56:09

Alexander Valtingojer

But for as a person personally Bitcoin is, is just a way advanced updated version of code. So it's the first real asset like there's nothing so scarred than Bitcoin in the world like as an asset class itself and we have a digital transferable factionalized world until and transparent like it's not like gold we have which is thought somebody I kind of have to go somewhere to exchange exchanges it's just the same basically gold is car and bitcoin is got is completely the same just the digital version of it.

 

01:11:56:21 - 01:12:22:16

Alexander Valtingojer

And my investment thesis against it is looking again in the general movement that we're going that people are growing up digital they connect more with digital things. I just like my personal connection to it is just I don't believe that that, that the gold will be disguised asset of the future. I think it will be bitcoin. It's like gold just wave proofs in a way.

 

01:12:23:03 - 01:12:43:06

Alexander Valtingojer

And with the adoption happening of digital natives, I also think it will replace gold. As the gossip is said, like us as asset which is tied basically holds the value currently super early for bitcoin. I mean it's I guess now with the last prop it's like around 700 billion or something around death and gold is around $5 trillion.

 

01:12:43:12 - 01:12:50:19

Alexander Valtingojer

So there's still a long way to become the gold of the future. But I think the technicalities of Bitcoin have the potential to become that.

 

01:12:51:18 - 01:13:31:24

Christian Soschner

I'm I agree to that. I think Bitcoin has some advantages over gold. Um, especially mean it might not be that obvious for people who live in Austria, but when I open Wikipedia and enter the term end of the term hyperinflation, there are some countries that are hyperinflationary. I mean, the six, seven, 8% that we have right now is basically a choke when you look at other countries with 50, 60, 70% in a short period of time or a few hundred percent, which means then you get you, then you get your paycheck in the morning, you can't purchase food in the evening.

 

01:13:31:24 - 01:14:02:04

Christian Soschner

So there are some countries and gold isn't really a solution because it's it's difficult to store. So you can't purchase gold. It's okay. There's a private person in storage somewhere safely. When you look at the wallet, the digital version, I mean it's pretty similar. You can you can have a wallet, you can store Bitcoin and you can store the Internet and decide The area that actually makes sense is, for example, countries with governments that exchange quite frequently.

 

01:14:03:00 - 01:14:35:23

Christian Soschner

So when people need to leave the countries for some reason, I think it's also easier for them to take Bitcoin with them than gold. So to travel or to go somewhere and this is I think, a very unique aspect of Bitcoin that everybody can carry their entire network with themselves all the time. And when you look at the terms that you use digital, I think your generation and also the younger generations are used to traveling a lot and moving around a lot in the world.

 

01:14:36:03 - 01:15:00:09

Christian Soschner

It's not much the settling down like the boomer generation had built a house and plant the tree and settle down and have one job. So I think the young generation moves around freely around the globe, except the pandemic and start Bitcoin makes a whole lot of sense. You can carry it with you all the time. It can be sure that even when there is hyperinflation, I mean, the Bitcoin dropped by 50%.

 

01:15:00:17 - 01:15:18:20

Christian Soschner

And when I have traditional currency, if it's drops in a year, suddenly by a few thousand percent, if it gets out, it's exposed to that, it goes back to zero quite quickly. And Bitcoin is it's heavily adopted right now, has a chance to.

 

01:15:19:02 - 01:15:20:16

Alexander Valtingojer

Become heavily adopted.

 

01:15:20:16 - 01:15:27:16

Christian Soschner

Yeah, I think there's a good chance. So I see this use cases really happening. It might not be the best technology in the world. It's also obviously, but.

 

01:15:27:21 - 01:15:44:02

Alexander Valtingojer

That's also not the killer application of Bitcoin here. It's really about it's a distributed network who nobody owns. I think that's important case and it's really scattered like code makes sure it's current. So it has all basically benefits of gold, just like we mentioned before, a lot of improvement of it.

 

01:15:45:10 - 01:16:27:07

Christian Soschner

And it's accepted. I think the young generation accepts it as a replacement to gold. And looking at the dynamics in the in human society, I read an article that in the United States alone, 70 trillion of wealth is handed down from the poor generation to the children and grandchildren. And I think this is a complete shift in values from people who are used to buy gold or real estate as a store of value down to the younger generation who is used to use Bitcoin for the same purpose.

 

01:16:28:04 - 01:16:58:23

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, actually I think what what is currently happening is the biggest wealth transfer will ever happen, whichever happened because we have this huge boom area like a lot of people are boomers. It's also the name and what is currently happening is in the next 10 to 15 years this wealth will be transferred to the younger generation. So the millennials, Generation Z and like I said before, they are we all different living a completely different life because we grew up in a digital area.

 

01:16:58:23 - 01:17:19:05

Alexander Valtingojer

So we have on the one hand this wealth transfer happening from the old generation to a younger generation. And on the other hand, it's also what is happening now is that the young generation is entering they are knowledge generation. So a lot of them are highly educated, high income people which enter now in good jobs and going up the career ladder.

 

01:17:19:11 - 01:17:47:13

Alexander Valtingojer

So they will lead big companies, governments, etcetera, etcetera. We are basically becoming the leaders of tomorrow and it's not like in 20 years, the next five, ten, 15 years. So which is that all influences that I think to being a digital natives that are connected to digitization transferability, knowing what value it brings you, that that movement of wire from the older generation to a younger generation, just having more money to invest and allocate that wealth.

 

01:17:47:19 - 01:17:58:12

Alexander Valtingojer

And the third one actually being in the leading positions in all kinds in the world and all kinds of sectors, it's got to move towards adoption of that to Bitcoin. Basically.

 

01:17:59:07 - 01:18:31:13

Christian Soschner

I couldn't I couldn't be more. I'm the boomer generation used to go to the store of value when they look at how the annual production of gold is used to think 40% goes into investment, 40% profit goes into territory, 10% central banks and 10% is used in production factories producing technology basically. So 80% of the entire entire production of gold goes basically into investment.

 

01:18:31:13 - 01:18:35:17

Christian Soschner

So I think also Tudor is mostly for investment purposes as.

 

01:18:35:17 - 01:19:06:24

Alexander Valtingojer

Definitely that I actually I posit that once and then somebody like wrote down Yeah can make jewelry out of bitcoin. And I think my response was you can do that and it made was you just do it like jewelry. Like, yeah, there is no use case of it. It's, it's a sign of prestige of like expressing you identity of culture, but you can do it at the same other materials and you can do crypto in the Midwest theoretically to discuss it a bit with benefits.

 

01:19:07:03 - 01:19:28:02

Alexander Valtingojer

So exactly the same. So if the value of gold is not the usage of it, like it's really a small part of gold which is used in production of like computers, etc., etc. and the rest is just like putting money in because it's this car and it holds its value. Please. But why does it have to be goals in 20, 30, 40 years?

 

01:19:28:11 - 01:19:30:11

Alexander Valtingojer

I don't think that will be good.

 

01:19:30:11 - 01:19:53:04

Christian Soschner

I think this is this is my thesis for bitcoin. I think that this really shift in values at scale from one generation to the other for the older generation, and this is also to people I grew up with. It was very important to own gold, to hold gold, to have gold, also real estate. So as as I said, store of value, when I look at even my generation, the digital world became far more important.

 

01:19:53:19 - 01:20:10:15

Christian Soschner

And now there's the possibility to exchange digital goods. Unique digital. I see it similar to what you said, jewelry, It's digital jewelry. And if people believe in that, it's enough. It's ludicrous. I mean, gold is also a belief system.

 

01:20:10:15 - 01:20:42:21

Alexander Valtingojer

It's like a night and like it's now also doing like sneakers and like merge. It's exactly the same. Then fashion, like a Gucci bag has no more value. Ten, ten year back. You can hold your your wallet, your keys and or something else. But end is this value of like transporting things and like carrying things is marginal of the price and there's no reason why it shouldn't be the same in like a digital world that I paid for expressing myself because I like it.

 

01:20:42:24 - 01:21:02:19

Alexander Valtingojer

Whatever it is this, there's no reason at all why it shouldn't be. Also, in a digital world like that. And I think what else is an issue when you talk a bit with older generations is that this owning like it is physically owning, okay, I own a class and touch it, but growing up digitally, that touching is not important anymore.

 

01:21:03:00 - 01:21:25:13

Alexander Valtingojer

Like gaming. Like I always feel like gaming is really in the forefront of this digital ownership because people are spending millions of millions in one game, Fortnite buying skins, weapons, whatever, which has no case like it's not that your character is like passive. You have a nicer skin, it's just looking differently. And that's worth a lot of money to a lot of people.

 

01:21:25:19 - 01:21:38:10

Alexander Valtingojer

And these people are growing up because becoming, becoming a lost generation, that's basically building the metaverse. And I don't see the reason why it should not, as we shift in every aspect of our life in that direction.

 

01:21:38:10 - 01:22:02:09

Christian Soschner

Oh, I agree to that. I think it's happening. I mean, I liked playing games such since I was a kid, started late seventies when we had these tennis balls with white bars and once we career in the middle. So moving around then I think the invention of computers of is Microsoft. The IBM combination gave a little bit push into the gaming industry.

 

01:22:02:10 - 01:22:33:19

Christian Soschner

Then the next push was with the Internet. In my world, it came in 2,007.8 when Sony PlayStation three got connected to the Internet, made possible this multiplayer online games moved them from traditional Microsoft based computers to PlayStations and made it possible for people to pay to play games like Call of Duty, for example. And with that came the skin to skin features so that you can personalize your reference and you can personalize your player in in the game.

 

01:22:33:22 - 01:22:55:18

Christian Soschner

But the altering was compared to real life versions of games like I like trading card games, for example. They were not exchange ever because they're not unique. So you invested lot of money. The players invested a lot of money into that, but couldn't do anything with that. And now the NFT space is fixing that. So people Fortnite, for example, I mean they are tournament.

 

01:22:55:18 - 01:23:11:13

Christian Soschner

So I think Myntra is sponsored Bharatpur just imagine, I mean you can buy the Skin Ninja used in a in a tournament and I am pretty people are ready to pay money for that and behind that is always cryptocurrencies.

 

01:23:12:09 - 01:23:35:07

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, the collectible market is huge and I like it's not the effects of in the digital area yet because there are all these limitations. I think that like I said, I think definitely gaming will be one of the first killer applications of that space, like implementing tokens and make it exchangeable. Gaming, in my opinion, is one of the first ones which gets mass adoption.

 

01:23:35:07 - 01:23:41:19

Christian Soschner

And I think this is the reason why Microsoft bought Call of Duty. That's a lot of.

 

01:23:42:21 - 01:23:51:20

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, it was a big deal. And I mean, the CEO also said they believe in the metaverse, they believe in crypto. So they see that as an investment in execution.

 

01:23:52:12 - 01:24:11:23

Christian Soschner

As far as endless with your explanation, cryptocurrencies are crypto tokens are necessary to make this happen. And one of these tokens for just storing value in between. So let's how should we call it? It might be the reserve currency of the token industry might be Bitcoin. So it's the biggest it's yeah.

 

01:24:12:05 - 01:24:20:12

Alexander Valtingojer

We can call it like that. They also seed like that. I think it is a big deal being the reserve currency of generation. Yeah, that's Become for me.

 

01:24:21:01 - 01:24:24:07

Christian Soschner

It doesn't need to go out, it just needs a generation and then we just need to use it.

 

01:24:24:07 - 01:24:25:13

Alexander Valtingojer

Kind of becomes a world in end.

 

01:24:25:23 - 01:24:46:03

Christian Soschner

When we started though, our conversation started looking at the portfolios of content and I expected to see the usual cryptocurrencies ranked very high. That's I found also in my research and that I was surprised because second in this adventurous portfolio is I think the term K.R. is maker.

 

01:24:46:22 - 01:24:47:06

Alexander Valtingojer

Maker.

 

01:24:47:06 - 01:24:50:00

Christian Soschner

As well. What's that? What what is this coin do?

 

01:24:50:00 - 01:25:15:09

Alexander Valtingojer

It's basically that's a token for a decentralized finance system. So we didn't tap into decentralized finance currently, decentralized finance is basically trying to remove the middleman and financial exchanges and interactions. So again, like a lot in print, a lot has happened to have loans, like basically giving out the collateral and getting a cash loan against it or the loan against it.

 

01:25:15:18 - 01:25:42:17

Alexander Valtingojer

And how this is done nowadays is most central like a bank is in the middle, takes money from one side and gives out as a loan to another side. There are some fees involved and most of them are eaten up by the banks and it's a super transparent system and not accessible by everybody. What Defi basically does is, yeah, well, like like I said before, we automated away the middleman, like the contract is to trust and partake, which makes sure that the money goes back and test the collateral.

 

01:25:42:17 - 01:25:50:08

Alexander Valtingojer

And it and make is basically an ecosystem token where you can create this transaction, etc., etc.. And that protocol.

 

01:25:51:03 - 01:26:02:03

Christian Soschner

I see the value that your solution brings because in my social media worlds when help me dapp, I see a lot of bitcoin, a lot of videos about bitcoin about if also details.

 

01:26:02:11 - 01:26:04:06

Alexander Valtingojer

I should also be like high in the rankings.

 

01:26:04:06 - 01:26:04:20

Christian Soschner

Okay. I know it's.

 

01:26:05:04 - 01:26:12:09

Alexander Valtingojer

Taking a bit because of volatility. Could be that maker was pretty stable in the last couple of weeks because that the position increase and the other ones decreased.

 

01:26:12:19 - 01:26:16:15

Christian Soschner

But generally. But before our conversation it was not about to make or exist so.

 

01:26:17:24 - 01:26:21:04

Alexander Valtingojer

Should scored more true coinmarketcap like every project.

 

01:26:21:18 - 01:26:29:24

Christian Soschner

Yeah maybe maybe maybe not so much YouTube. The third one is if you theorem. What's your opinion about if is?

 

01:26:29:24 - 01:27:00:01

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, I definitely am a big fan of ether so it is definite that that infrastructure layer protocol system which has the biggest network effect like it's it's used for most of the NFT is it's used for most of the defi applications and each for the token itself is basically the fuel or like the energy in that system you have to pay ether to conduct transactions on a network like I won't transfer to you an NFT.

 

01:27:00:15 - 01:27:21:24

Alexander Valtingojer

There's some commissions involved as like some energy which has to be paid to to do that. Transactions each anomaly. So the biggest issue is currently the proof of work. So the scalability after system. So the consensus, I have a written consent, so rhythm a system, how everybody makes sure that's true, what's happening in a network and that's energy work base.

 

01:27:22:07 - 01:27:51:06

Alexander Valtingojer

So there's a lot of like power use and calculation power used to make sure that that's what secure and the calculation power how the system is built up. It's about eating lot of energy, it's eating a lot of energy. And on the other hand, that's not really scalable. So because now there's so much activity happening in the space with NFT and Defi, commissions for transactions under network exploded, it's like, I think worst case, 50 to 80 blocks per transaction.

 

01:27:51:19 - 01:28:14:22

Alexander Valtingojer

So imagine I want to like sell your book for €10 and then you have an $80 commission. That's currently the challenge of ether. They are working on it. So they already made some some movements into proof of stake. So a different consensus I've written, which is capital instead of energy to make sure the network is safe. But it's still way, but it has to implement it.

 

01:28:15:09 - 01:28:40:22

Alexander Valtingojer

And on the other hand, I see some other projects catching up, especially Solana is like really move to gathering like a lot of network network effects, so getting an ecosystem around themselves. So get to summarize it. Great technology. Did the very first one to really crack smart contracts and basically offering this infrastructure layer to make that 3.0 possible.

 

01:28:41:09 - 01:28:59:12

Alexander Valtingojer

But they have a lot of challenges and other players are catching up with newer technologies. So I wouldn't say it's one of and without it, we're not out of it. But I'm also thinking they will not die because in my opinion that will be different system for different networks and interoperability between this bunch of technologies will be really important.

 

01:29:00:08 - 01:29:27:00

Christian Soschner

Yeah, I think it's not so much either or. I there a place for more than one technology in that area to think about what they're talking about are transactions and what you explained the first hour is that there are so many possible use cases that will increase the number of micro-transactions. And when I look back in the finance industry, minute transaction in the seventies basically was when people exchanged money physically.

 

01:29:29:01 - 01:29:59:07

Christian Soschner

And as this was so problematic, there were not many transactions. Now you can really go down to transactions of a few cents. That makes sense with smart contracts because every time I can carve out a little bit for myself and I just need these transactions happening at scale and it's possible to make money before that and think there are so many use cases like books, for example, resetting of books or distributing books of the music that there need to be they need to be more systems.

 

01:29:59:07 - 01:30:13:24

Christian Soschner

And look at also that the human side of transaction, I mean one might like the other one made like Serrano. So it's always there. So likes and dislikes of people and there's always room for two or three players in the same space. I don't fancy a problem.

 

01:30:14:10 - 01:30:36:18

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, I also see like that. I mean, there's still a lot of development happening. You don't know, perhaps as a new player comes up. But currently I guess the biggest potential is definitely fear because it has this big network of network effect, but others are catching up, so who knows? Like I said, it's a fast moving industry. You have to have your eyes open and basically adopt with it.

 

01:30:37:14 - 01:30:51:04

Christian Soschner

And for investors that don't have time, quite bad is definitely a solution that can help to keep the eyes open. I mean, you mentioned Solana is I think is similar space. Kabam other is it with 7% of the portfolio. What's your opinion on other I'd.

 

01:30:52:02 - 01:31:14:07

Alexander Valtingojer

Say similar to Zelena. I mean, Order Cardano was one of the first who cracks proof of stake, so it's practically more stable. But I know they have issues with real implementation of smart contracts and also based on a zero network effect. So they had some they had some struggles on that side.

 

01:31:15:03 - 01:31:15:15

Christian Soschner

So we had.

 

01:31:15:21 - 01:31:24:10

Alexander Valtingojer

Lots of catching up. But I like that they didn't they couldn't deliver on the promises which they initially made.

 

01:31:26:00 - 01:31:50:10

Christian Soschner

So we have two technologies that then decide to sequence bitcoins, digital, gold. And then from our conversation we have, if you are there in Solana, amongst smart contract platforms and then see also in this adventurous portfolio or cutouts and links. But is this technology, what's that these technologies all about?

 

01:31:50:10 - 01:32:09:13

Alexander Valtingojer

Poker, these are actually on the smart content platform but they like link is mainly inter-operability of interoperability and Oracle function. So I guess that's also an interesting concept. And we did the kinds out which are doing that link I think is the most adopted one next to Cosmos atom.

 

01:32:11:22 - 01:32:35:01

Alexander Valtingojer

One of the issues which you mentioned before are different technologies and you have to make them work together, and that's the issue of internal ability. So the different technologies use them to make blockchains interoperable so that it used derivatives on a token switch. And it's replicated under the other ten different there. But there are specific project specific technologies working on making Solana work Europe.

 

01:32:35:06 - 01:33:07:14

Alexander Valtingojer

So it doesn't it's not an all, but it's an end in that regards. And Oracle is also an interesting concept. Oracle is getting ordered that data like audited centralized data into smart contracts, for example. We have a lot of data streams which also could be interesting in in my context. For example, we exchange that transaction when some sample institution that I don't know, we exchange the transaction.

 

01:33:07:14 - 01:33:28:08

Alexander Valtingojer

If the central bank says they're going to increase the interest rate so that then it's again a central institutions get it providing the data, but we need to get the data into the blockchain environment in a decentralized environment. And then Oracle Solutions are basically the connection points between centralized data to make it decentralized.

 

01:33:28:08 - 01:33:32:19

Christian Soschner

Oracle You don't I don't mean the database system.

 

01:33:32:22 - 01:33:43:10

Alexander Valtingojer

It's not. It's Oracle. It's called Hot legged. That's the name of the technology, like smart contract inter-operability, Oracle, like all the mascots of the industry doing that.

 

01:33:44:18 - 01:33:58:19

Christian Soschner

So there's a lot going on in that space of with Link there is the possibility to use cases from the blockchain with the Solana blockchain. So it's like being a translator between the blockchains.

 

01:33:58:21 - 01:34:23:05

Alexander Valtingojer

Yes, yes. I think that's all done. One that generally speaking, with all of technology, one of the important things to to really get mass adoption in that industry is this has to be so smoothly integrated in nice UI and like nice interfaces. We know what's happening in background, like the tech is now been built, the infrastructure. But for you, the book exchange basic has to be an app.

 

01:34:23:05 - 01:34:48:09

Alexander Valtingojer

More or less you connect to something and then you can do with the exchange, I guess the interface layer. Well, that's a lot of funding is going back, not only the blockchain development, but also make the blockchain understandable and usable like a bit like companion to certain degree. That's also a huge, like hugely important part of this industry because you can build the nicest technologies and the nicest like whatever.

 

01:34:48:21 - 01:35:01:22

Alexander Valtingojer

If nobody understands and knows how to use it and it doesn't matter. It's the same as having the nicest products and not like making marketing. You can have the best app in the world or the best kind of work. If nobody knows about about you, then doesn't matter.

 

01:35:02:17 - 01:35:28:06

Christian Soschner

That's true. That's true. So we have three or four different use cases. So for for for digital currencies, digital gold, interoperable interoperability and smart contracts. And then to see if, for instance, when the Oracle is the fourth one in Tennessee the fifth one only swap think is one of those what what's, what's Uniswap doing.

 

01:35:28:17 - 01:35:55:20

Alexander Valtingojer

Uniswap is basically providing a decentralized exchange. So let's do the example with Coinbase that now we have a middleman. Like if we want to exchange Coinbase pro diverge like a professional exchange and now we want to exchange some assets, whatever. There's always Coinbase in the middle who basically makes a market is a trusting entity who was the funds and takes a commission on every exchange which is happening on the platform.

 

01:35:56:08 - 01:36:31:11

Alexander Valtingojer

What is Uniswap doing? It's basically decentralizing about making smart contract peer to peer based exchange, which is still secure because it's based on smart contracts. You connect your wallet, somebody connects as well. And basically it's exactly that When that happens, exchange that good that in the meantime it's called in the contract so you remove middle Yeah middlemen again like exchanges are like banks to certain degree they are only middlemen say their service is trust and that transfers can be automated through to a blockchain protocol.

 

01:36:31:11 - 01:36:32:15

Alexander Valtingojer

UNISWAP In that example.

 

01:36:33:09 - 01:36:38:07

Christian Soschner

It's an end to ecosystem coming to life. So it was not still 2017.

 

01:36:38:19 - 01:36:43:20

Alexander Valtingojer

Yeah, it's actually a new project. I think it's the last in 2019.

 

01:36:43:20 - 01:36:45:05

Christian Soschner

So yeah.

 

01:36:45:23 - 01:37:01:11

Alexander Valtingojer

Now this is a similar one so that there are a couple of others using different technologies, different specific use cases. But this decentralized exchange model existed in 2017, but really got traction in last one or two years.

 

01:37:03:01 - 01:37:15:03

Christian Soschner

Yeah, that's true. I mean, I think there was not so much depth into the entire crypto space in 216, 17 or 18, like it is now a switch to another one of your portfolios. It's cautious.

 

01:37:15:20 - 01:37:16:03

Alexander Valtingojer

Okay.

 

01:37:16:09 - 01:37:43:07

Christian Soschner

A cautious if benefit. There's a high volatility the market student we see it these days with the let's call it crypto crash of the of 2022 and probably the bear markets coming back to the crypto space and cautious seems to be a portfolio that's is care of that that's the quality that is not very high and first coin with 80% is us DC what is this coin doing.

 

01:37:43:19 - 01:38:23:01

Alexander Valtingojer

So used to see is basically a crypto token pegged to the US dollar. So 80% of this portfolio is in as in a coin which basically replicates replicates 1 to 1. US dollar. That was a catch. So we mentioned before the decentralized finance networks so that you have like these peer to peer systems where basically loans and assets are exchanged and what we are doing, what is done with the UCC or what you can do in general with every asset as a Bitcoin, you you can provide liquidity to these pools and get an interest rate of it.

 

01:38:23:10 - 01:38:55:00

Alexander Valtingojer

So for example, you put your Bitcoin on that example you associate into these assignments for somebody can put that fear of us, of collateral and then loan out. You use this name and then the smart contract make sure that either the debt is paid back or the collateral defaults and you get the proceedings. And on these centers, finance networks that currently pretty high interest rates because there's more demand for liquidity than provision of liquidity on the one hand.

 

01:38:55:08 - 01:39:17:13

Alexander Valtingojer

On the other hand, it's a global market without limitation. So it's not that like it's a lot like there's a lot of demand and not so much supply. That's the reason that the interest rate is high. It's a global market. It's not that connected to national developments. So it's like really, okay, what what's the price of it? And if one is again, again, no middlemen ceding commissions away, it's peer to peer.

 

01:39:17:19 - 01:39:36:10

Alexander Valtingojer

The guy that did the one person pays the commissions directors of Dollar one. What we did in the portfolio is basically providing interest, which if I could generate to a simplification, again, you invest in it that you get 6% fixed on us. The same.

 

01:39:36:10 - 01:40:05:20

Christian Soschner

It makes sense. I was not aware of that. So basically it means people can buy you this. You put it in a that said that's with an A bank account and the bank then uses the collected money to hand out loans and therefore the savers get some interest rates, which is higher than the current 0% Uruguayan way higher.

 

01:40:07:00 - 01:40:32:07

Alexander Valtingojer

Yet that's exactly what's happening. And the product normally it's a bit complicated because again, you have to use wallets to connect, execute contract within companion. It's busy and what a click of a button and it's done in the background bars. What we are working on is now it's a euro based solution that we make a hired euro based account where you can store euros and it and you get an interest rate on euro.

 

01:40:32:07 - 01:40:34:21

Alexander Valtingojer

And then in the background you generated to decide.

 

01:40:35:12 - 01:40:40:17

Christian Soschner

Is there a risk to the clients the minute that they handed out this loans for this if they cannot be paid back.

 

01:40:41:10 - 01:41:05:13

Alexander Valtingojer

There's a default risk that's like there is a debt to risk one is this about contract risk in ever know if the technology really holds? Until now it's never going to it's never been a big issue to the bigger protocols which we are using like maker or compound, etc.. And the second risk is if the market drops to like normally it's like 200% collateral.

 

01:41:05:13 - 01:41:23:24

Alexander Valtingojer

For example, you rent out 100 U.S. dollars, you have to at least put in the collateral two hundreds in Bitcoin, for example. Now, let's imagine Bitcoin dropped so quickly and there's not enough liquidity to liquidate it. It could be that because of the flash crash, you cannot be compensated.

 

01:41:25:23 - 01:41:31:23

Christian Soschner

Okay. Okay. So it's risky, risky into minus.

 

01:41:32:19 - 01:41:58:19

Alexander Valtingojer

Risk. And that actually this never happened until now because it's not dropping like that. The market drops 50% within a couple of minutes so that you cannot liquidate. Never happened in the history of the crypto market with bigger clients like it's not that this like these protocols that there's not enough liquidity on clients which have a trading volume of I don't know, a million a day.

 

01:41:58:19 - 01:42:10:01

Alexander Valtingojer

This is mostly just for the bigger ones like you used to see, for example, and use it like a stablecoins. Now I had top ten of our cryptocurrencies because I was like billions in it and most useful collateral is bitcoin.

 

01:42:10:02 - 01:42:33:14

Christian Soschner

If you touch the modern version of the new version of savings and loans that evolves around with higher yields on one hand, but also higher demands for collateral to put in to secure the paper. It's basically done for really promising, growing models and example to get loans into this business models that otherwise would not have happened.

 

01:42:34:02 - 01:42:54:03

Alexander Valtingojer

There is a lot happening in that area. There's also a lot of institutional money going that direction, a lot of venture capital going that direction, and a lot of platforms are built on that. It's also still in the early phase, but I think in total we already have 100 billion value locked in this in this decentralized finance application.

 

01:42:54:13 - 01:43:15:07

Alexander Valtingojer

So it's not that small anymore, but this small competitor to the real market, the classic market, traditional market, you also, if you like, think further with and if TI's etc., etc. they already platforms, but you can, for example, put in a both like one of the biggest NFT collection and use that as a collateral and like going wider and wider and wider.

 

01:43:15:14 - 01:43:45:14

Alexander Valtingojer

That's again nice being off the top ability of what is this platform. I could basically use any asset as a collateral to get a loan and basically get liquidity short term. So long bad credits would be not from stocks easily replicate replicate to defi protocols. People take credits like getting a loan on an on a house. For example, if you tokenize it, you could easily replicate that normal banking business in a decentralized finance protocol.

 

01:43:45:14 - 01:43:48:18

Alexander Valtingojer

If there's enough liquidity, if there's a market for it, then you can do it.

 

01:43:49:22 - 01:43:51:23

Christian Soschner

Now, I'm speechless a little bit.

 

01:43:52:15 - 01:43:53:07

Alexander Valtingojer

It didn't know that.

 

01:43:55:02 - 01:44:30:03

Christian Soschner

Note as this reinvents the entire financial system in a way that it makes it more cost efficient, then I think you mean there was how much effort and energy. You said in the beginning that some tokens consume a lot of energy, but when think just about what how much energy, brainpower, thinking, power and also electricity is used to keep up the banking system globally, which only works in the western world by rote and a third world countries.

 

01:44:30:03 - 01:45:03:08

Christian Soschner

I mean, due to some restrictions, it's not possible to establish an efficient banking system like we have in the Western world. Also, when I look at the second point on the banking system, the angle, how many transactions they can handle, it's very it's a very expensive system. From what you explained in the last 2 hours about sadhana for example, or theorem that can handle much higher transaction volume at the same periods of time that the traditional banking system doesn't in-patients.

 

01:45:03:08 - 01:45:06:20

Alexander Valtingojer

But there's a lot of things happening, like a lot of transactions. Yes.

 

01:45:06:24 - 01:45:13:00

Christian Soschner

Yeah. But anything even patients, when they look at the banking system having a transaction these days from Europe to the United States also.

 

01:45:13:15 - 01:45:20:03

Alexander Valtingojer

For that but that use case, yeah, that's actually the most inefficient process which you can imagine.

 

01:45:20:17 - 01:45:42:09

Christian Soschner

But it was there, but it was the best solution at the time. It was invented by no better solutions. And now they are reinventing that with, with the cryptocurrency space. It's great. It's really great. And for people who want to get into the crypto space without investing a lot of time for research, your team is providing the solution.

 

01:45:42:09 - 01:46:15:01

Alexander Valtingojer

Exactly. That's exactly what we do. As a one short note on the defi space which which you just mentioned, but in the first portfolio, which is currently not visible on the is exactly covering the automatic decentralized finance like basically reinvention of the pensions financial system. And yet there's a lot happening, a lot going on, a lot of cool stuff happening, but also a lot of lots of cool stuff happening because the market is still in its early phase and I think for for people who just want to have exposure, we have the perfect solution.

 

01:46:15:04 - 01:46:22:05

Alexander Valtingojer

That's what we are trying to do, giving exposure, giving access to the market without getting people crazy about it.

 

01:46:23:01 - 01:46:31:15

Christian Soschner

I have two questions left. So if one question is, is your solution available globally or just in Austria.

 

01:46:32:04 - 01:46:38:20

Alexander Valtingojer

It's available in the whole European Union and economically the whole European economic area.

 

01:46:40:05 - 01:46:43:15

Christian Soschner

So it's basically continental Europe plus United Kingdom, of course.

 

01:46:43:16 - 01:46:45:00

Alexander Valtingojer

Yes. Yes, exactly.

 

01:46:45:12 - 01:46:47:16

Christian Soschner

That's quite. Do we have any plans to go global?

 

01:46:49:08 - 01:47:11:18

Alexander Valtingojer

Currently not. We see a lot of opportunity as passion European markets. And so we are about to expand in Europe with active like advertising new products around and if you like, relative to exposure, but it's not yet planned to. We want to expand to Asia. The U.S. in the near future because of regulation, different economic areas. It makes our solution a bit more complicated.

 

01:47:11:18 - 01:47:16:05

Alexander Valtingojer

And we see there's still a lot of potential in Europe and we want to focus.

 

01:47:16:05 - 01:47:28:20

Christian Soschner

And I would like to divide the last question into two parts. One part is for the investors in the audience, if somebody wants to invest in your company, are you currently fundraising or do we have any plans to raise funds in the future?

 

01:47:29:12 - 01:47:45:04

Alexander Valtingojer

So we're currently not fundraising. We are currently most of the upgraded mode. We are expanding to Germany, We are expanding our product line with 50 products, but we plan to race around later this year in August, something like that.

 

01:47:45:24 - 01:48:09:11

Christian Soschner

So it's possible also for investors who want to look at your company as an investment case to engage with you and stay in the loop and for later this year or next year. And the second group of personas are the retail investors or investors who would like to buy coins without investing much time. What's the best way to engage with your company?

 

01:48:10:11 - 01:48:33:16

Alexander Valtingojer

I would say it can be easier than just downloading the app or going to the website register setup and it's so easy. That's actually hard to explain. Basically, we have just registered the deposits of money and then just stopped off to cautious balance, adventurous depending on how much risk you want to take and just get started. And once you get interested in it, you can do different.

 

01:48:33:16 - 01:48:34:03

Alexander Valtingojer

And if t.

 

01:48:34:17 - 01:48:36:21

Christian Soschner

What's the minimum amount people needs to invest?

 

01:48:37:00 - 01:48:56:06

Alexander Valtingojer

I think currently the minimum is €50, so even the minimum is super low at €50. You can try it out if you like it, you can increase the position, you can set up a savings plan. So make regular deposits one of the portfolios. So it's really it's like investing, but completely digitalized. You don't have to call anybody. You can do everything to the website or the app.

 

01:48:56:20 - 01:49:11:22

Christian Soschner

So €50 to invest in a diversified portfolio is paradise for people who grew up in the nineties. So it was not very really possible back then with such a small amount to invest in a diversified, diversified portfolio.

 

01:49:12:05 - 01:49:17:10

Alexander Valtingojer

All fractionalization of financial instruments is happening. It's also one of the big trends could be.

 

01:49:18:01 - 01:49:24:17

Christian Soschner

That's great. And the final question to you, did we miss anything in this episode? Would you like to add something that?

 

01:49:24:21 - 01:49:45:03

Alexander Valtingojer

I actually I think we call it a lot of things. It was super exciting dreaming up it and exchanging ideas about how the future would look like. Yeah, I guess you can see I'm really passionate about the topic and then connect with it, I guess. But I think what people definitely should do is open their eyes a bit and also try around just the technologies.

 

01:49:45:03 - 01:50:00:15

Alexander Valtingojer

It's also fun, not always as an investing purpose, but also seeing how could the future look like and just be open. What is happening like a lot is happening. It's not going to be next year, but it's going to be sooner than a lot of people think. I think that's like my closing remarks.

 

01:50:01:13 - 01:50:16:14

Christian Soschner

That's true. Couldn't agree more. I think the ecosystem will continue evolving and it makes sense to allocate a little bit of capital into that area. Alexandre, thank you much for your time. I wish you and your team all the best and good luck for 2022.

 

01:50:16:24 - 01:50:17:20

Alexander Valtingojer

Thank you. It was great.

 

01:50:18:01 - 01:50:42:00

Christian Soschner

I really have a great day. Bye bye. Did you like the episode then? Please, please, please leave a five star review on Spotify and Apple and to make sure that you like, comment and share the YouTube episode. It helps that the algorithm delivers the episodes to people who also benefit from it. The same way then you got it.

 

01:50:42:06 - 01:50:43:03

Christian Soschner

Have a great stay.

 

(Cont.) #77: Alexander Valtingojer - How to Invest in Digital Assets