Beginner's Mind

#109: Philipp Baaske's Journey: From Small Village to Biotech Entrepreneur

April 04, 2023 Christian Soschner, Philipp Baaske Season 4 Episode 18
#109: Philipp Baaske's Journey: From Small Village to Biotech Entrepreneur
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Beginner's Mind
#109: Philipp Baaske's Journey: From Small Village to Biotech Entrepreneur
Apr 04, 2023 Season 4 Episode 18
Christian Soschner, Philipp Baaske

Join us in this episode as we talk to Philipp Baaske, CEO of Nanotemper, and explore the ins and outs of building a successful biotech startup. We cover topics such as bootstrapping, finding customers, developing effective leadership skills, and more. Gain valuable insights and advice from Philipp's experiences as a business angel and entrepreneur. Tune in to learn how to build and scale a successful biotech startup.

πŸ’‘ LINKS TO MORE CONTENT
If you like the episode, become a subscriber and support the show: https://lsg2g.substack.com/subscribe
Philipp Baaske
Christian Soschner

πŸ“– Memorable quotes:
(36:18) "First of all, I disagree with Steve Jobs, it's important to talk with customers about their problems, but it's really about the problem, not talking about a technical solution." 
(48:17) "If you don't fail, you do something wrong because if it always works, you don't do the risky thing; you just do the easiest thing."
(01:10:20) "This is my advice on startups: sell. Sell a product before you have it because if the customer gives you money for it, you know that it's worth developing it."
(01:12:39) "We never thought about failing. Failure was not in our mind." 
(01:19:31) β€œI strongly believe that every disease is treatable.”

⏰  Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(02:30) The Impact of SVP Bankruptcy on Entrepreneurship
(06:41) The Importance of Proper Risk Management
(09:51) Absolute Focus on the Things You Can Influence
(12:05) Managing a Global Team: Trust, diversity, and decentralized decision-making 
(14:56) Trusting the Best People
(17:01) Hiring with Gut Feeling and CV-Application Letter Match
(20:32) Marketing and Cultural Diversity
(28:43) The Importance of Product-Market Fit Over Funding and Investors
(29:12) Finding Customers vs Finding Investors
(33:43) Milestones and Helping Customers
(38:00) Talking to Customers About Their Problems
(40:06) Identifying Markets and Competitors
(42:56) Unlocking New Cancer Treatment Pathways
(45:26) Overcoming Failure in Startups and Drug Discovery
(48:49) Breaking Out of Confinement and Pursuing Goals
(56:37) Impact of Upbringing on Entrepreneurial Spirit
(57:33) Stop complaining, start improving: lessons from Vienna
(01:

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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Join us in this episode as we talk to Philipp Baaske, CEO of Nanotemper, and explore the ins and outs of building a successful biotech startup. We cover topics such as bootstrapping, finding customers, developing effective leadership skills, and more. Gain valuable insights and advice from Philipp's experiences as a business angel and entrepreneur. Tune in to learn how to build and scale a successful biotech startup.

πŸ’‘ LINKS TO MORE CONTENT
If you like the episode, become a subscriber and support the show: https://lsg2g.substack.com/subscribe
Philipp Baaske
Christian Soschner

πŸ“– Memorable quotes:
(36:18) "First of all, I disagree with Steve Jobs, it's important to talk with customers about their problems, but it's really about the problem, not talking about a technical solution." 
(48:17) "If you don't fail, you do something wrong because if it always works, you don't do the risky thing; you just do the easiest thing."
(01:10:20) "This is my advice on startups: sell. Sell a product before you have it because if the customer gives you money for it, you know that it's worth developing it."
(01:12:39) "We never thought about failing. Failure was not in our mind." 
(01:19:31) β€œI strongly believe that every disease is treatable.”

⏰  Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(02:30) The Impact of SVP Bankruptcy on Entrepreneurship
(06:41) The Importance of Proper Risk Management
(09:51) Absolute Focus on the Things You Can Influence
(12:05) Managing a Global Team: Trust, diversity, and decentralized decision-making 
(14:56) Trusting the Best People
(17:01) Hiring with Gut Feeling and CV-Application Letter Match
(20:32) Marketing and Cultural Diversity
(28:43) The Importance of Product-Market Fit Over Funding and Investors
(29:12) Finding Customers vs Finding Investors
(33:43) Milestones and Helping Customers
(38:00) Talking to Customers About Their Problems
(40:06) Identifying Markets and Competitors
(42:56) Unlocking New Cancer Treatment Pathways
(45:26) Overcoming Failure in Startups and Drug Discovery
(48:49) Breaking Out of Confinement and Pursuing Goals
(56:37) Impact of Upbringing on Entrepreneurial Spirit
(57:33) Stop complaining, start improving: lessons from Vienna
(01:

How to Start a Podcast Guide: The Complete Guide
Learn how to plan, record, and launch your podcast with this illustrated guide.
Coaching Conversations in 2024

In 2024 we're going to be going to monthly themes and I would also encourage you to...

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

The Neil Ashton Podcast

This podcast focuses on explaining the fascinating ways that science and engineering...

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Moving + Packing Tips and Hacks, Real Estate & Life
Listen to 'Life Beyond Boxes Podcast' – the art of moving with ease and confidence!

Support the Show.

Join the Podcast Newsletter: Link

6:30

I think I saw it first on the LinkedIn post yeah yeah I think it was pretty

6:36

amazing because it happened last week if I remembered right on Wednesday and Thursday and on Thursday so the first

6:43

post on LinkedIn it's pretty amazing how social media works these days yeah yeah it's quite

6:51

quick and it's I think it's very important for all people in in the tech industry so in our

6:58

networks which are all about deep Tech I think it was natural that it flopped

7:04

up because it's so important yeah natural was good Twitter was filled with comments from chasing color

7:10

counties for example from the audience podcast and David sucks he was one of the founders of PayPal and they were

7:17

communicating a lot about the impact on the entrepreneurial landscape what's your opinion about the impact of the SVP

7:25

bankruptcy on entrepreneurship here in Europe do we see any I think we will know afterwards as always in this crisis

7:32

you know also with 2008 is what we call now financial crisis what will be the impact of this let's

7:39

call it maybe it's a crisis maybe not I think we all know said the predictions

7:44

are hard especially about the future so we will know afterwards what the

7:50

impact was what I see is as an entrepreneur for me it's more important

7:56

does it impact me and what can I do it maybe impacts the whole industry but

8:03

I can't change it I can't do anything to improve the situation for the Silicon Valley Bank

8:08

also the whole Bank thing what I can do is to improve the situation for my company

8:14

and this is what I do I focus on the things I can do I can change I can influence

8:21

and I don't let myself be disturbed with all this news is panic there's a lot of talking about it what will happen to us

8:28

I can't change it so I focus on the things okay what can I do with my company what can I do with my people and

8:34

this is what I try to focus on and not to get myself distracted I follow the news yes

8:40

it's because it was interesting to me what happens here but I don't let myself be disturbed by

8:46

it or to get to be afraid of something and really focus on the now what can I do and send

8:53

that c in in one year what's interpretation of this incident will be

8:58

how do you do that I mean social media is Fields these days with bad news actually and I learned during the

9:04

pandemic to use social media on a daily basis and Facebook Twitter and Linkedin when something happens like SVP is just

9:11

filled with bad news and I see the same way that you do actually accounts to

9:16

anything against it yeah so why focus on that how do you tune yourself out of social media when you see there is a lot

9:23

of negative negativity coming up how do you do that there's a lot of speculation so on the serious talking talking about

9:30

speculations but the big changes always live on a longer time scale

9:36

and now I I Source it's a US Government took some action Biden made a statement

9:41

so they do something and this is fine for me and I think they will stay with a statement

9:46

and I just don't read the things I just okay yes it will happen something and

9:52

then trust people have a good Network and I think if it really gets dangerous and something will really happen to us

9:59

I will be told I mean what we have checked is I mean trust your guts feeling tells you

10:04

never have all your asset at One Bank we have several Banks and we also look

10:10

okay do we have a a certain risk there with everything at one account and we don't

10:17

have so this is what I watched that do we have a principal risks here and now you have a lot of reading about

10:24

what should have been done to avoid this but you know afterwards you always know

10:29

it's the trick is to know it before and no one knew before no one predicted this

10:35

so I just don't don't read the news about it yeah I think this is what they mentioned is the key Point get a good

10:41

Financial guy in the company who is doing proper risk management so what

10:47

I've saw on LinkedIn very often was that companies complaints that all the liquidity was in One Bank tied up during

10:56

the crash of SVP and they didn't have any second bank account or third bank

11:01

account so I think your advice is really great when I compare 2023 with the year

11:08

you started your company Nano temper it was in 2008 yeah it feels to me today

11:13

that we have a similar situation in 2023 like it was in 2008 how did you

11:18

experience 2008 back then the financial crisis when you started your company well we started a company out of PhD

11:26

studies and when I when I sit back and think about

11:31

this time what happens here so I was so focused on starting Nano Timber

11:36

I knew there was something happening with lemon Brothers and it was anyway tough to get money

11:43

but this financial requires a hotel every everyone it was difficult at this time to get money because it's a

11:48

financial crisis but this is looking back during this time my crisis my whole Focus was Nano Timber

11:56

to get it started to get money to get products to get customers

12:02

so I was so much in those daily operational thing so they had no time

12:08

to be afraid of this crisis or to have it top of her mind and this is also a thing which I think is important

12:15

focus on what you do and this also helps you to ignore

12:20

these things maybe ignoring is the wrong word I mean it's something happening you

12:26

should take it seriously but not put your focus on it I think yeah is it a

12:31

bad word let me just think about it I was I have a business background and in 2008 there

12:38

was part of some let's say interest groups and there was this whole discussion about will we survive next

12:46

year what will happen is the economy failing is the financial industry failing and the entire Focus was on the

12:52

problem so I think what you said I read it very often for our inbox um from Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk that

12:59

they also have this ability to focus their retention on the task at hand rather than all this chatter around it

13:07

advice that you would give entrepreneurs these days to do it similar like you did in 2008 to focus on driving their

13:14

business forward instead of getting distracted from Market to evalences Absolute focus on the things you can

13:20

influence you have an impact on and set up your company in a way that you can react

13:26

as always I mean Germany entrepreneur is called unter Nima some under name I mean

13:32

someone who does something so you always have to be in a position where you can do something

13:38

and you this is what you have to do you bring you have to bring yourself in a position where you can act and

13:45

react and only think about the things you can change

13:51

how do you how do you do that on a personal leverage a lot of curiosity um when something happens in your

13:57

company um what's what's your North Star to decide is it an important thing to focus

14:03

on or is it something that you can prioritize a little bit down on the list

14:10

how do you do that I would say in a very pragmatic scene when something happens

14:16

I sleep over it and if I can't sleep well during the night and I dream about it

14:22

I know there is something serious happening at least emotionally for me

14:28

and the other thing is I trust my people so say all selected it's a great team

14:34

and I trust them and I'm I'm sure that we can adapt to everything

14:40

which is coming and this helps me to sleep most of them of the nights so I think there's a trust

14:47

in your people if you if you can't trust your people you have a problem you have to change this but trust in your people

14:54

really your team together you can achieve a lot this will help you whatever the situation is you can adapt

15:00

to it let's talk a little bit about your company Nano Temple uh mentioning people

15:06

and the team is a great hook for the for the next question when you reached out to me asking if we can do a podcast

15:12

together as a nano Tempo it's a barbarian company and you automatically ended up in my

15:18

small company pocket so I thought now temperatures the usual European life science company 15 to 20 employees and

15:24

it's rather small then I started I didn't do my research very properly so sorry for that and then I started doing

15:31

some research on your company and started posting also on LinkedIn and put

15:37

the event website up and every day another employee popped up and

15:43

the next employee and the shared all the content I posted and then I thought

15:49

this hour already 15 and then we have the number 16 and number seven so I must be wrong this was the first time when it

15:56

looked at accidentally your LinkedIn profile for your company and so that you have 197 employees on LinkedIn and if I

16:05

read the internet properly I think it's close to 230 employees that you have currently in your company uh can you

16:12

give me the right picture of a company to size and where it's operative in which countries

16:18

if you know 237 people we have 30 nationalities in the company

16:24

in fact it is a lot third year we were just sitting in Copenhagen with a team and counted how many nationalities we

16:31

have and we counted 30. so I was also surprised with so many may I ask you which nationalities it's from Trinidad

16:38

Tobago Japan yeah it's from South Africa to Norway so very International very

16:44

diverse a great team and we are headquarters Munich but we have also subsidiaries in

16:52

San Francisco in the Boston area in Bangalore Shanghai peaking in Tokyo just

16:58

to name a few of them so very International as a business is international so this is a flying word which means

17:05

business is local so you have to be it's a customer so we have the customer in

17:10

the focus so we are as a customers and this is a hot Sports everyone knows Boston area so

17:16

hotspot for biotech so very strong in Boston area so so we follow the market and the

17:22

customer how do you do that if you've mentioned you have employees in Japan in Boston in

17:29

San Francisco and the Munich so it's basically a global operation how do you manage that on a daily basis having

17:35

phone calls during the night during the day it's basically 24 7 business so management is all about trust when

17:43

you trust the people and I trust the people you don't have to manage them you don't have to micromanage them you

17:49

trust them they are selected we believe in them we trust them we work together very well

17:54

so it's not about talking every day say no to do that job

18:00

you know when you when you start up a company you have to hire really peoples that are better than you

18:05

who can really do such up this is tough you know you started it and send you hire new people and say do

18:12

the truck better than you do it's tough when you see them okay wow so you're doing so much better what have

18:18

I done the last years but this means also you have to let them do their job you don't have to disturb them for doing

18:25

such a job so you trust them and sends they do their business and Japan in San Francisco wherever they do

18:31

it and say we'll call you when the need advice of course you synchronize the

18:37

company you have tools web tools like assana which are Global in the cloud which

18:43

helps you to synchronize everything in a synchronous communication is very

18:49

important in transparency so that people can see what is happening and use their brain power to interpret

18:56

it and to become to get into doing so the assumption is we trust the people we have the best people

19:02

and we enables them to do their job so this is how we set up the company

19:08

I think this is an important part not micromanaging your team to create a larger entity

19:14

you mentioned that one of your most important criteria is to hire people

19:19

that do their jobs better than you can do it I'm curious now how do you what's your

19:27

decision criteria when do you feel that somebody is doing a better job than you do I mean I always have the problem when

19:34

somebody is better than me I mean I can try it because it's it is better but uh how much better and is he really better

19:40

is something which is beyond my expertise how do you manage that

19:46

but experience and learning in the beginning I had to learn how to touch this what tough maybe in 90 life been

19:52

wrong so it was tough times to learn a lot of mistakes hard for both sides so

19:57

you hire people you touch them wrongly I've been also not you know a bad leader

20:03

or in manager so we had to adapt and learn and most importantly learn my guts

20:09

feeling so it's a lot about the CV and the application letter if this fits together

20:16

and from the cvcv you learn about the technical skills and with the application letter

20:23

if it matches to the CV so in the CV for a certain skill set you have a certain personality and when you write it in the

20:31

application it has to fit so this is and send a personal meeting

20:37

and God's feeling I figured out that a meeting a job interview via teams does

20:43

not work for me it has to be in person on teams that do misjudgments

20:48

and I also and since God's feeling just got sphere is

20:55

as simple as it sounds it's God's feeling but this is not scalable with the company of our size

21:01

this is not scalable and also have some problems it's only my gut's feeling

21:06

but it's not about me it's about the company so I know we also need people to come

21:12

forward where maybe my gut's feeling is not working anymore and since it was one

21:18

learning in the last year to scale the company also Stephanie become bottlenecks and

21:24

hiring and you you have to hire diverse people

21:29

also people you may be personally you don't have a perfect fit

21:36

and so you can do this with your executive team with your leadership team you can scale up the hiring

21:43

you you talk about the culture and the value of the company and just gives you a Direction

21:49

what kind of people you can you can choose I think it's always challenging

21:54

when I mean when starting a company initially it's just people around the core expertise of the company where it's

22:01

easy to charge who is good so it's not so good uh when it's a promotion who doesn't need a promotion who is

22:06

ambitious who is not ambitious but when entities are getting bigger as you said the skill set becomes more and more

22:13

diverse so from coming from a technically scientific perspective what's your North Star to charge for

22:20

example business people uh and to church with your gut feeling uh lawyers for

22:25

example how do you how do you feel that they are the right fit for your company and that they provide the right expertise

22:31

there's a lot of personality of if I can trust some I don't work together with people I can't trust I don't work

22:39

together with people I would need a contract to work with them we always made make a contract it's it's

22:44

professional but it's a judgment of personalities yeah this is

22:50

really it's about trust if they're honest transparent and if we can trust them this is the

22:57

main sometimes if it's not the case I don't do the business because it's

23:03

driven we can decide and if we do if we don't feel good with it we don't do it there's a thing

23:09

we are we only say company fully we are independent we have the freedom so if we have a bad feeling with someone

23:16

We Trust our feelings and our experience that means in a multinational business a

23:22

lot of traveling basically you said you manage your operations personally in

23:28

person not so much via teams and you have companies in U.S Japan so you're

23:34

basically all the time on the road no we can do it if I mean if I do a job

23:40

interview I can't judge a person with your teams but if I know a person if there was one

23:47

person in a meeting or a few of them it works very well about teams and the thing is because we have so great people

23:54

we have very low fluctuations so a lot of people stay very long with us so we

23:59

know each other very well we fill up the trust we build up a communication level where we really understand each other

24:05

and this makes it very effective and efficient because of this good knowledge when you have the leadership team where

24:12

most of the people have been with the company for five or six years you really know each other sense and communication is

24:19

easy also about different time zones and different locations but for me a few times especially in the

24:26

beginning I need this personal contact to to get to know each other and

24:32

the good thing is we can also invite some to Munich it's Oktoberfest every October

24:37

it's Oktoberfest it's September you invite the people and get to know each other yeah and often beer is a good

24:44

Icebreaker we can sell it as Europeans that with the Oktoberfest it's a great event

24:50

um I mean what I see on the internet from your company uh your marketing is great

24:56

it's perfect you have uh I think it's free slong so that I remember one is creating a world in which every disease

25:03

is curable I like it very much and then there are one or two

25:08

correct me if I'm wrong making the invisible visible to make the untrackable trackable

25:14

these were the first songs that I saw on your website and they jumped really into my eyes

25:20

um how did you come up with these loans what was the process behind it so we have a really good marketing team

25:27

and and Trust lean she's working on the

25:32

west coast she's really great in condensing the messages and the feeling to this so

25:40

she just lean brought up this a greater world where every disease is treatable

25:45

or better it's we want to help to achieve this and send me a Creed on the team we

25:52

discussed it how we feel about it and then we've we've chosen it and then you see I mean you see what's

25:58

sticking if you write down a sentence you talk about it and no one remembers

26:04

it if it doesn't stick it's not a good messaging if it sticks like this hair

26:09

creative over everything is treatable or we mix the invisible visible to drugs and druggable

26:15

the sticks and it's a good message let's let's come to a tough topic you

26:23

started a company in Munich and your marketing is in San Francisco out of curiosity you don't have to

26:29

answer but you have experience with marketing people in Europe and you have experience with marketing people over on

26:35

the West Coast where do you see the differences what's what's different between marketing approaches in Europe and in the United

26:42

States are pretty much the same or are there different strengths that you can use for your company

26:47

yes they have different strengths so this is a good thing when you have a global company

26:53

I mean we have Italian design for the products we have this German engineering

26:58

and we have West Coast marketing so and also we have studied nationalities in

27:04

the company we don't think about okay who is better than the other you think where's the strengths and then we

27:11

combine it and and make something great from it so take the best basically from our

27:18

cultures yeah German internship you started a company in 2008 with your co-founder Stefan tour

27:24

and you had the idea to start nanotember Technologies when I remember my time in

27:29

the 90s when I finished my university studies and got my degree basically the majority of people got one

27:36

advice from their parents Golf and the job in a real company and don't do anything adventurous like funding a com

27:42

starting a company what was your motivation to not go down the farmer

27:48

route or the academic route and this is decides I start my company

27:54

I think there was an opportunity to start it so we during our PhD teases

28:00

Stefan we had a project together and send weave we redef discovered and infected covers

28:07

called time of reasons the funny thing is that time of releases was you know here in Vienna

28:14

in time of reason it was first described here in Vienna in Vienna really Mr Ludwig described it it was in 1856.

28:22

there's a publication it's a one-page so if you read it you don't understand it it published it in the academy media

28:29

so we rediscovered this effect during our PhD teases and the thing was

28:35

it was described in the wrong way so everyone thought what we do is

28:40

impossible because the theory told it's a publication told it's impossible but

28:46

experiment showed it's possible and so it was good for the patent application if everyone thinks it's

28:53

impossible your inventive step is there so we found this effect we realized by

29:00

talking with peoples and it was Mr finals from Roche he brought us to

29:06

the protein business and say our technology is missing and we realized there is a opportunity

29:12

say to do something and this is also typically for entrepreneurs as I said

29:19

under Neymar Neiman you do something and the thing

29:24

you have an opportunity and then you do it a single maybe it's a singers

29:32

I'm not a person seeing the risks first I'm seeing the opportunities first so there was an opportunity and we just

29:40

took it so you started with Stefan tour in 2008 based on a Patent filed in Austria in

29:48

1856 it was basically the time of the monarchy so yeah almost 170 180 I don't have excellent

29:55

unfortunately here under 170 years roughly ago I think our politicians could be happy here in Austria so it's

30:02

basically an Austrian patent is uh successful in the world thanks to your team in 2008 you were two people

30:09

when you started the company now you're to over 230 and in 2008 it

30:15

was Germany Munich and now it's Japan it's Europe Munich

30:21

it's Boston it's San Francisco when you look at this pathway in this

30:27

timeline from 2008 up to now what were the most notable free Milestones on your

30:33

journey one thing I can remember very well was how we sold the first device so we did a

30:40

lot of demonstrations to the research group also to companies

30:47

and I think 30 of them failed but we we kept them on trying we really had a strong belief

30:53

and since there was a commonly in Munich it was grelogs and we had to say gave samples to us

31:02

and told us if you get system running we will buy a device from you

31:08

so can very well remember I was sitting it was a 23rd December of 2009

31:15

so day before Christmas I was sitting on the in the lab on the microscope a very basic setup

31:21

and it was doing the experiments and was working really hard until the night because I want to get it

31:27

finished to visit my parents for Christmas so we finished the experiments there

31:33

send the data to gray looks and win for Christmas and New Year's Eve

31:39

in January 2000 2010 greylocks fondas

31:46

yeah you can win Stars we will buy super and San

31:52

bought the device before we headed just a

31:57

transferred money to us and this is money we bought the parts for the first device and we built the

32:03

device receptive to Sam in March and from the money we got we bought say parts for the

32:10

next two devices cool and since this time we are profitable and I think in 2000

32:17

10 we already sold 30 devices that's super it reminds me of it I don't I think it was both airplane Microsoft

32:24

didn't start similar I think they also had the first customers got some upfront

32:30

payments and then produced what they needed to produce I mean when we stay a little bit that

32:37

this is what you did from 2008 to 2010 getting your first customers in basically product Market fit when I look

32:43

on the market before 2023 and uh think about my experience with incubation

32:48

program acceleration programs it always felt to me that the utmost priority was

32:53

founding investors also when I read through Linkedin these days maybe it's just my power but there are a lot of

32:59

info it's a lot of information how to find your investor how to pitch to investors how to get your company

33:04

fitting with the investors need and vice versa and you went down a different route you found customers

33:12

in your opinion when you look at the markets today what's your advice to entrepreneurs would you rather go for if

33:19

you just make have to make a decision would you rather go for product Market fitting these economic environment or

33:26

would you also spend some resources on finding investors to move your company forward

33:31

my advice would always be Focus make a decision so it's about look inside

33:36

yourself what do you want is independence and freedom important for you

33:42

or want to have will become rich or want to have a lot of money I mean went to Capital private Equity

33:49

dominates the news so social media companies are backed by Venture Capital private equity and we read social media

33:55

so it's obvious that they will talk about funding how they've been founded

34:00

because they have to promote their own story but this is not the only way I mean

34:06

important is that you have a choice you have the choice between bootstrapping or Venture Capital both are okay

34:13

you have to be aware in venture capital you have to make them Rich they give you

34:19

money said you make more money out of it than others can do this is why you say give you money and they want to sell

34:26

and then you have to think okay okay I have the first vendor capital they want to sell in five years what

34:32

happens then the next venture capital guy or comedy bias it and send the next the

34:38

next and you have to do an IPO or a strategy guy company buys you or

34:45

you're bankrupt these are the options it's you have to be aware if you start with venture

34:51

capital you take this route this is absolutely fine this is a good route

34:57

but you have to be aware what you do and say as a route is

35:02

maybe it's a bootstrapping route you may grow slower you know but you

35:07

grow with some money of the customer and since money you earned it before you

35:13

get it with the products you build and you really own some money you can do whatever you want

35:19

with this money then you have freedom and Independence hold both sides

35:27

not better or worse I think you see my tendency

35:32

review yeah because it puts away I think we try to venture capital way we looked

35:37

for money no one was giving toward us we was no good in presenting but you

35:43

have to make a choice I think it's the worst thing you can do is following both routes in

35:50

parallel because then you don't Focus you don't focus on product you don't focus on on your pitch decks and getting

35:57

some money so you have to take a decision we have to risk not to do everything and this is the most

36:02

important sing what what the founders to do what the CEO have to do you have to take the hard

36:08

decisions you have to say no I'm not doing this I go this route and then you fail

36:14

and you'll stand up and maybe you take the other route but when you try something you have to fully try it not

36:20

just a little bit it's full focus on the one thing really push it

36:26

that it works and if you send fail it's fine you tried it but it's really about trying The One Thing

36:32

when we stay at the first Milestone finding investors or finding the first customers I think they're all they are

36:37

always Market cyclists and starting a company in 2018 I'm not aware of any company who was

36:44

successful in fundraising especially in the Venture Capital space the market was pretty much dried out so I think it must

36:50

not necessarily be a judgment of the quality of the company to not get Venture Capital it's probably just bad

36:55

luck to start in the wrong time it's it reminds me of 20123 which we have now that we also

37:02

have a complete different Market environment today than we had three years ago so three years ago it was

37:08

basically easy to find money there were new Financial models on the market like the Intel SPAC industry and now it's

37:14

completely tried out um but I think it's necessary when the companies to get a good Financial guy on

37:20

board and uh always as you mentioned explorable throughout so is it possible to get venture capital in or is it more

37:26

time to find more customers and sell more to get more Capital into the

37:32

company it's always about growth at the end of the day and having the right skill set in the company's key to success

37:38

my next question when we stay on the Milestone route so the first one was finding the customer what was the second

37:43

milestone not every Milestone between 2008 and 2023

37:49

for me a milestone is to really see that we help the users and customers

37:55

we first will get the product done and send experience what the customers do with it we had

38:03

this PhD student I think her name was Tanya she visited us

38:09

and she told us I have to assemble I have to get it working for my PhD teasers and I'm working three years on

38:15

it and no progress and since you put in our device and one hour later she had

38:20

the data and that means he had tears in her eyes it was really emotional and sadness since the point where we

38:27

really experience did you do something important which really helps the customers also an

38:33

emotional level and so this is still also the energy

38:38

I get a lot of energy from visiting customers and seeing what they really do with our products because so send you

38:45

experience it helps it's not only on a financial sheet where you see some Revenue numbers

38:51

you really experience that someone use your device for a good

38:57

thing and feels good about it and so I have a lot of milestones

39:02

I said was just recently it's a slis one customer approached us

39:07

and told us your dinos device is almost revolutionary cool and then we ask him

39:14

why almost why not revolutionary what is missing

39:20

and so we now do a lot of things to remove the almost yeah but this is what

39:26

drives us to really see that we have the say customers I think it I like your

39:31

customer approach let's stay a little bit with that I think it was Steve Jobs who said never

39:38

ask customers what problems they have because they don't know them so as an

39:43

entrepreneur an entrepreneur must have the ability to observe the customers find out what problems they have and how

39:50

to solve them what's your approach with nanotempa is it like Steve Jobs that you

39:55

go to your customers that you observe them and uh finds out this way which problems they have or are you doing it

40:03

more the traditional marketing way finding a focus group bringing some customers together asking them about

40:09

their problems what do you think is successful on the market in your area first of all I disagree with Steve Jobs

40:18

say it's important to talk with them about their problems but it's really about the problem not talking about a

40:26

technical solution I had one case where it was about we need a cooling

40:33

State Force assembles and it was in this case it was very

40:38

difficult to build a cooling stage and everyone was talking about how to build a cooling stage

40:44

so I was talking with a customer okay what do you really want why cooling stage what do you want to do with a cooling stage

40:50

yeah you know I want to prevent evaporation when I cool it down

40:55

evaporation slows down and send it was about okay via cooling station

41:01

why not having something to close it so it's a thing you really have to find

41:07

the problem and no don't talk about the Technical Solutions about really understanding

41:13

the problem and really get to the same we're understanding with a customer it's

41:19

also I said we make the invisible visible

41:24

and I was this was also learning I talked to a customer and he was talking

41:30

about invisible particles he comes from Pharma I come from the sake for me invisible is

41:38

below 170 nanometers because the diffraction limit for him invisible

41:43

means like he can't see it with his eye okay the same word for the different

41:48

meaning understanding so it's a lot about communication really understand what's the other person means

41:55

and so there's also different between what's the user wants and what's a user

42:00

needs so I fully disagree with Steve Jobs it's about talking with a customer about

42:08

their problems they're all scientists they really know what they do and they really know what

42:14

they want they need and it's very cool to talk with semen who finds his own it's also about trust

42:20

you have to like our communication you have to do a lot of small talking in

42:27

other approaches to reach a certain level of trust so we can talk openly about the problem

42:34

so that another person doesn't feel stupid to tell you about something I mean you

42:39

have a problem you can't solve it so you need a certain trust level to be able to

42:45

talk about this and just comfort it needs a lot of transparency and

42:50

honesty to reach this level and we are working really hard on on having this

42:57

trust of our customers so that they can tell us their problems and we can help them

43:04

yeah maybe it's also difference between business to business customers and I think Apple Steve Jobs is more in the

43:10

business to Consumer area nano-temper is not producing custom

43:16

Solutions if I remember it right you scale your solutions to Industry level

43:21

so you can make thousands and hundreds of thousands of uh machines in your area

43:28

how do you decide that and I'm just curious on your decision criteria when you talk with Scientists I mean they all

43:34

work on important problems uh how do you find out whether it makes sense to scale

43:40

a solution to Industrial scale Auto just drop it how do you how do you find this this

43:47

point where you'll say okay this makes sense because many scientists have a similar problem uh while other problems

43:53

are just personal individual problems which one or two scientists have which doesn't make sense to scale to Industrial Level what is a decision

43:59

criteria in that part so we look at some markets so it's about okay when several users or customers

44:06

have the same need you can call it a market for example the project Market in our

44:12

area you see it's a booming Market it's also we also see so Venture Capital guys are really

44:18

clever so you do say chop very good they have good search teams we also look where money is flowing

44:24

I mean when a lot of money flows in a certain area a market is forming up

44:31

and the other thing is also sounds very simple look what's a competition does

44:37

if a comedy door sells hundreds of devices in a certain area for a certain application

44:45

there is a market and you just have to build a better product you just have to do better

44:51

marketing you just have to do better sales it's very tough

44:57

but from the thinking it's easier it's always easy it's always

45:03

there's a misunderstanding I often also founded Founders they say okay and system says already one company or two

45:10

companies in this market we are not the only ones this is good if you're the only one in the market maybe there is no

45:16

Market there's a lot of people are clever it's normal that you are not the only

45:22

one who identify the market so it's good when other companies are there you can follow them so also

45:28

Commerce are really good in identifying new markets we are not so good in this insists but

45:34

we know the communist or good answers so we see where Sego and then we follow Sam with a better

45:41

product this is why we invest so strongly in r d I said when we see there is a market we

45:48

really try to understand the market talk with the customers identifies a need

45:53

and then we trust builds a better product this is very interesting

46:01

I think it reminds me of Star Trek where to go where nobody else went before

46:07

something like that I think was the initial change I think it's always challenging when a

46:13

company is the first company in the area it's always the question am I the only stupid person here and

46:20

does a market not exist basically or am I really the first one who experienced

46:26

also um the opportunity and went for the opportunity so your approach is rather

46:33

being not the stupid person who is going in the wrong direction but looking at competition looking at other areas

46:39

venture capital for example to find out where is the money flowing and where are the big problems and I would like to

46:45

stay a little bit in that area in 2023 which big problems do you see on

46:50

the market in science what are scientists working on currently what do you see in your research

46:56

as this Pro-Tech area which is very cool where you have a new pharmacological pathway

47:02

where you where you have a molecule maybe a cancer molecule you want to

47:08

destroy and what you do is normally in the former times you just blocked it with a

47:13

molecule it is not always working now they have a new approach you get a molecular touch to it and says

47:20

molecules brings a a kinase from the cell to it

47:25

and you just mark it as trash and send your site kills it and send your molecule move to the next molecule

47:32

cancer molecule and marks it at trash and this is a completely new password this is very exciting and so also

47:40

there's a market it's called intrinsic disorder proteins

47:45

so your new targets and they were considers untrackable before

47:50

because they're we're also not good methods to approach him and see some assets

47:57

our devices look like just as being made for it it works it's like the market

48:03

from our devices whenever someone tries one of these molecules with our devices as protects

48:09

intrinsically disorder proteins so if I had it once because it works and

48:15

yeah it seems to be that we are the only one who are so good in this market so sometimes the market also

48:22

found you but I want to get back it's the feeling you describe sometimes you you think

48:28

yeah am I stupid the solution I have this is so simple so easy why have no one done it or tried it

48:36

before so it's a natural feeling so I know this is feeling very well it happens so often

48:41

in product development it sounds so obvious so simple so easy

48:46

there's so many clever people white doesn't have any one

48:52

done it this is absolutely wrong question if there is a Mark and I need go for it

48:57

don't think about the past the wise no one has done it

49:02

it could be in the past that technology technological Technical Solutions like

49:08

lasers or LEDs or super power CPUs haven't been there and it has been

49:14

impossible in the past and now it's just so easy how how sort of interrupt you how do you

49:20

draw the line how do you draw the line I mean when you look at the statistics it's still 9 out of 10 startups fail so

49:26

9 out of 10 ideas that qualify for becoming a startup don't work when you look at drug Discovery track development

49:32

I think we're talking about 99 out of 100 ideas fail

49:37

and one works when you look at clinical development I think we are at the same ratio of 9 out of 10 failed and one

49:43

works in clinics overall just simplified I think it's always interesting

49:50

to how how do you decide where to draw the line where to stop a project because

49:55

it can still be that I mean when 9 out of 10 fail that the one idea that I'm

50:01

Clinging On whether I think it's the right approach the right direction to go is the one that doesn't work because uh

50:08

I mean this is the reason why nobody else is doing it while it might also really be that I'm the only one who sees

50:16

the right route and the others don't where do you draw a line in your company

50:21

to say okay guys we went this way it's too far we burned a lot of capital

50:27

it doesn't work while people in the company might say no we don't believe that it will work that's just a pour in

50:35

another million what is your decision criteria where do you draw the draw the line in your decision making to say okay

50:40

this project goes forward and we abandon the other project because it doesn't work I don't draw lines and it's it's a

50:48

problem since the stopping it's a problem is the beginning as you mentioned everyone knows that 9 out of

50:54

10 fail 99 of out of 100 fail everyone knows this so the problem is not just

51:00

stopping the problem is the beginning the openness it is custom should we really start this

51:07

it's it will not work or you have a new idea and then

51:13

all the engineers say Okay problem so when you talk about say

51:22

if should we start it if a problem so this is what I call This And when I switch to science fiction mode

51:29

I tried to describe a world versus product exists

51:35

and then to get this great problem solvers in the mode basis thing about how get I how do I get it done but then

51:43

you have to believe that it's possible so I'm going away from should I do it from the if

51:49

to okay to say how how should I do it because a lot of things are just not began

51:55

and this is what it's not stopping it's not the problem the starting is a problem and I mean you

52:02

you start something then you fail and then you have to restart the new things this is tough and this is where you what you have to

52:09

do in management and Leadership you you have to start these things despite you failed because otherwise you

52:17

if you don't fail you do something wrong because if it always works you don't lose the risky thing you do you just do

52:23

the easiest thing it's about the starting and this is what I see

52:30

in Germany in Europe we have a problem is when 9 out of ten fail we see the 9

52:35

out of ten in USA it seems to me say c71 who worked not the nine who failed yeah

52:44

and so this is why you say try some risky things well I'm European after all but there's

52:49

also I mean um some people believed in flying that's why we have the aviation industry and

52:55

some people still believe that the Earth is flat which is uh Ultra stupid

53:01

um you mentioned in one of your posts that you grew up

53:07

on the countryside and help us at your post right on

53:13

LinkedIn that your teacher stored your parents that you don't qualify for uh

53:19

higher education is that really is it related I think you here have a strong

53:25

franconian dialect yeah so

53:32

and some teachers consider them or sister like they're stupid because I can't yeah if you can't speak like an

53:38

educated person they think you are not an educated person you're not so clever and since I told my parents this guy is

53:46

not level enough for the gymnasium really suffice great again but just safe very

53:54

good grades and then went to the gymnasium because it was an obvious

54:02

I think my parents say also had an IQ test for me so it wasn't based the

54:09

decision wasn't based on on data and the funny thing is this teacher who told my parents I'm not

54:15

clever enough had to give me the book price of the Sherman Society of physics was the best Abbott doing for six this

54:21

was quite he can't he couldn't remember it it was just

54:27

I don't know how this could happen yeah because otherwise not a temple would not exist

54:33

yeah I mean it's I experienced pretty much the same here in Austria I'm also from a small village for Austrian so

54:39

it's my grandparents had their Farm in a small village with I think 200

54:45

inhabitants my parents lived in a small city with a little bit above 10 000 and

54:51

teachers had power roads in society so they charged this guy is

54:57

should go down this route and that girl is qualifying for that job and parents

55:02

believe that why did you break out of this pattern what made you break out uh and say okay

55:08

I mean I don't care what teachers say I just go my own my own way what what was your decision criteria back then

55:14

I care I cared what what's he say so I care a lot about what people say but I

55:20

also have a strong will I would say I take a lot of things serious but then it was

55:27

yeah why because I could I would say it was so it felt obvious that this is the right

55:33

rule because I was interested in learning more or does this Village it was just I think it was eating books or the

55:40

knowledge I could get I was just a sucking it up I want I wanted to learn

55:47

and I want to to get to know more from the world especially I'm very much interested in people so

55:54

people excite me I like people people like me and I wanted to learn

56:00

more so it was yeah I had to do it was away I just

56:07

couldn't stay in a small world I have to broaden my my borders this is

56:14

what I still do I want to to learn more I want to broaden my borders I I often or always

56:22

fight with myself to come overcome my ego to get out of my comfort zone to learn

56:27

new things for me it's always a fight I'm always afraid of new things it may look like I'm doing a lot of new

56:34

things but I'm afraid of them it's really for me a fight with a new some

56:40

are very emotional maybe sometimes aggressive thing I have I really have to fight with new things

56:47

so I think I sometimes pissed off people because when they tell me something new

56:53

I had a defense reaction now I have this under control but I'm somewhat afraid of

56:58

the new but also excited and then I I fight with it in my mind and send curiosity always wins but I'm

57:06

very I have a lot of fears and afraid of new things but some of my curiosity is stronger how

57:13

do you fight through this wall I think I read a book if I think it was the art of uh the war of arts and the author

57:20

described that all artists have basically this tendency to have to fight

57:26

for the art to get going uh what's your secrets to get going and not to just get

57:32

stuck into something else even procrastination for example is uh in my opinion um

57:37

the the strongest way to not pursue the own goals so maybe it's what you

57:42

describe is basically what happens also in my life I see ago I want to go in the direction and then I feel something is

57:48

holding me back and it's so tempting to then pull out the smartphone um do a little bit of watching Netflix

57:55

or gaming or something else but not pursuing at all how do you how do you

58:00

get yourself motivated initially to take the first steps towards the direction of

58:05

your goal but rather than doing what 97 of society is doing uh playing games

58:10

doing nothing I have a lot of people helping me also

58:16

my girlfriend is pushing me forward Stefan is pushing me forward a lot of people in the company and my network are

58:22

pushing me forward so there's also something I realize that it is a lot a

58:27

lot is about collaborations mentorship coaching having people supporting you yeah and say help me when I see when I'm

58:34

completely let's say not open door do a thing and I see my girlfriend is very open to it it helps me to go sir it's

58:42

not always easy for both of us but it really helps me and so is it's also with

58:48

Stefan we have completely different personalities so sometimes I'm defended to something

58:53

and Stefan really likes this and this helps me to get there alone

59:01

I'm not sure if I would achieve this alone I don't think so it's really about I have to talk with

59:07

people about it and people help me to overcome my hurdles it's a good thing you're not

59:13

alone yeah there are people and people's like people like to help you

59:19

yeah it's a I think it's a good point to have a team that helps overcoming resistance I would call it that way it's

59:25

one of the most important things and I think also what you mentioned as an entrepreneur it's important to like people it's really difficult to build

59:32

the people's business without having a passion for for people around you

59:37

when we go a little bit back to your upbringing what impact did your

59:43

experience in your village have on your entrepreneurship spirit

59:51

so experience so my my parents my father and my mother my father worked as an

59:57

electrician my master in kindergarten in my grand bar as a farmer

1:00:02

and my parents were complaining about their jobs and their bosses and my grandfather was not he had his

1:00:11

own business I mean as a farmer you're very much influenced by by vesser

1:00:17

and if you think about it you you have in your whole lifetime you have only 50

1:00:24

or 40 opportunities to get the perfect say read out of whatever's the best it's

1:00:32

a perfect Harvest and you Sylvester is as it is it can be bad or good

1:00:37

but it doesn't help you to complain about service because you can't influence a vessel and this was my

1:00:45

learning what I also said was the Silicon Valley Bank I can't influence what is happening here

1:00:52

as I can't influence sevisor so if there is bad vesser

1:00:58

I still try to get the best possible Harvest and so if there is a bad Finance

1:01:03

situation because of of a bank Rises I can't influence us but I still try to

1:01:09

get the best out of the situation and this is what I what I learned learns there if there is

1:01:16

something I mean I can't complain I can't complain about people because I mean I'm the

1:01:22

entrepreneur I can't blame anyone I can't blame Sylvester I can't blame the Silicon

1:01:28

Valley Bank I can only play me so I I have to focus on the things I can

1:01:33

do and it's not about complaining we have to change the situation so don't waste

1:01:39

your time in complaining put your time into improving sound advice for Vienna I guess so it's

1:01:46

a bit in which decade did you grow up it's basically the 80s or was it 80s 90s

1:01:53

born in 1979 so grew up in the 80s and 90s I also be at the same age group

1:01:58

basically it was pre-internet times and then you decided to study Physics and

1:02:05

start a biophysics company when I think back to my experience on the countryside I think physics and

1:02:13

Mathematics was not on top of the list it was also more a rural rural area now I have it

1:02:20

um with more farmers how did you find your passion for physics

1:02:25

and I had good teachers in physics so as a child I remember I was most interested

1:02:30

in biology but in in school I had bad teachers in chemistry and biology so I somehow hated

1:02:37

it but now I'm doing it it's very good and a very good teachers in mathematics and physics and had a talent for it and

1:02:44

then when it comes to studies I didn't start with physics so in I finished

1:02:50

school in 1999 and it's a civil civil service

1:02:55

and sensor versus it boom I was in Germany MP3 format was discovered by Mr

1:03:01

brandenburger and he he joined Irma now a small town

1:03:06

University as Professor so I went to England now to start with a engineering informatics because you know from a

1:03:13

village business six what can you do become teacher I had no idea what to do with physics

1:03:19

later on maybe astronaut which is cool yeah that's true or science but serious

1:03:25

maybe also find no job at least in my regions there was no job for infosix so I started with

1:03:32

informatics in instance engineering informatics course you also listen to physics and

1:03:38

then I had my first Physics course and then I said okay no it's not informatics

1:03:44

it's for six and then I changed to physics so I tried I failed I changed

1:03:50

you know I'm doing business and biochemistry and not physics

1:03:58

and what what formed your decision I mean basically on

1:04:04

the countryside finishing school was enough for most people and getting a University degree was for

1:04:11

the majority of the society back in the 80s just out of scope it was just okay you need a few doctors who treat

1:04:19

patients so in that sense and a few lawyers and that's it basically the

1:04:25

majority I think went down the safe shop route and you decided to go for a PhD

1:04:30

studies what what formed your decision I think my father my parents supported me

1:04:36

and also it was this curiosity I wanted to learn more

1:04:42

to also to go to a new city and also also I realized that there was

1:04:48

a lot of knowledge out there and big science fiction fan I think you mentioned this Star Trek yeah and as we

1:04:55

are now on TV some pictures there's one thing I want to do engage

1:05:03

yeah so I had my parents supporting me strongly do you have still a passion for

1:05:09

space I mean I think the 80s it was Star Trek it was Star Wars uh I think many people our generation

1:05:17

started dreaming about space space exploration Elon Musk went down this route so he's still having quick SpaceX

1:05:23

has the vision to build a colony on Mars what's with your company is there any uh

1:05:29

Visionary Space Project going on and also like space very much and we indeed

1:05:34

have a project with International Space Station yeah so I think it's now the launches planned

1:05:40

now for 2025 we will send experiments to the International Space Station it's a

1:05:45

formulation topic formulation of proteins how to stabilize them so I'm very excited about this project

1:05:52

you started already in 2014. so long time project and say launch has

1:05:59

been postponed for several times now but it's now planned I think May 2025

1:06:04

and then we will send and experiment with another space station so rocket science cool why space why do you need

1:06:12

space for your work and special you have nearly no gravity and you have we do a lot of this

1:06:18

temperature and uh and all our samples are in liquid so an antibody a truck like had septino

1:06:27

trusted zoom up has to be stable in liquid and so you have a lot of temperature

1:06:32

influences in temperature means you have some convection

1:06:37

and some convection means if we eat something up it becomes lighter and then sudden it moves upwards insists

1:06:44

into it induces flows which makes something loses antibodies and why do it move upwards it's the warm

1:06:52

thing is lighter but it only is lighter because because there is gravity

1:06:57

and to really understand what what temperature alone does to it without

1:07:03

flows you have to switch off gravity what you can't do on Earth but on

1:07:09

International Space Station if microgravity so nearly no influence of gravity so we can study accessibility

1:07:15

so serviceability of antibodies without the influence of

1:07:21

gravity without thermal convective flows and since this whole problem becomes

1:07:26

simpler and we hope to learn something from this how how can you imagine that I mean it's quite it's really exciting to

1:07:33

imagine that uh company that films basically is also

1:07:38

your post with uh with the Oscar on uh on your LinkedIn profile where you

1:07:43

posted it you're the first person who touched the Oscar uh here on the in the podcast studio uh who is going to space

1:07:50

on top of that how can I imagine that is it do you just call it London's a needs peemy up

1:07:58

Scotty when we stay in the Star Trek picture how do you organize such a space project is it is it tricky to get into

1:08:04

that program or is it just like uh calling a number and say I want to

1:08:10

experiment shoot me up when I do it as they approached us so scientists approach us it could be interesting for

1:08:16

us to do this because it's for science it's very interesting

1:08:21

to switch off gravity in the studies of problems here so they approached us if it's also

1:08:26

interesting for us and it's now running for more than nine years

1:08:32

and it's not clear if you can make money with it so I think

1:08:40

this is why I like the freedom Independence we have if I'm Venture Capital driven company I have to focus

1:08:46

on getting money yeah and I won't I think I think I wouldn't have done it

1:08:51

but it was just and there was an opportunity to do rocket science and I'm a science fiction fan I love

1:08:58

space and then scientists approached us and

1:09:04

then we took the opportunity because it's cool it's very exciting and this is why I

1:09:09

like it supposed to have this freedom and Independence of a bootstrapped and found on company we can only I don't

1:09:16

care if I earn money with this I do it because I can I do it because

1:09:21

it's interesting and there may come something out of it I don't know it's

1:09:26

very risky but maybe it's a really cool thing and at least a lot of fun I mean in life it's a lot about fun we

1:09:34

trust don't live to earn money or whatever it's also about entertainment and fun and this is a super exciting

1:09:41

project so we do it because we can you mentioned a couple of times that you

1:09:47

like science fiction books yeah and I'm curious which was the most influential

1:09:53

science fiction book on your work I think it's a it's called Lucky Star

1:10:00

Space Ranger from Isaac ashimov there is a a guy it's a detective stories

1:10:08

with with a guy who studied physics in a citizen science Council having the

1:10:15

government due to solve difficult problems and this was somehow a hero for

1:10:21

me who solved let's say science fiction problems with

1:10:26

with science so he started for six he was a cool guy a hero and so somehow

1:10:32

resonated with me in my teenage years and I like the science fiction

1:10:38

mode where they build up a new universe they set up rules not real rules but rules and stick to

1:10:45

the rules so they built a setting and stick to it in Syria and you complete a

1:10:50

new world evolves and this helps me to get out of

1:10:55

this operational mode and to open up my brain for new things and new new ways of thinking yes was a

1:11:04

great writer yeah yeah I love his books uh you mentioned bootstrapping

1:11:10

when I've when I connect the dots to the

1:11:15

acceleration decoration programs in my opinion it's all about fundraising and very often I get the feeling then I

1:11:23

talk to entrepreneurs who were part of these programs which are pretty much good

1:11:29

um that they feel a little bit insecure when they get a lot of rejections from disease because not every business idea

1:11:35

qualifies to become a VC case it's just basic basic VC science let's call it

1:11:40

that way that they invest in certain kinds of projects that guarantee

1:11:45

basically a 10x to 100x return and the majority of the startups ideas are not

1:11:52

really qualified to have such a perspective um many of the scientists or

1:11:58

entrepreneurs give up then and say okay when they don't get funding I don't continue on that route

1:12:05

you said you started a company with bootstrapping did you feel like a second thing you wrote in your post uh we were

1:12:12

a second hand entrepreneurs I think was it a related way that you felt that we

1:12:17

see route is superior to bootstrapping so I think I there was a

1:12:26

woman from it from Handel's blood who asked me in a posting do you feel second class and I trust

1:12:32

picked it up a second class was it yeah it was second us to do this bootstrapped companies feel like second cars class

1:12:39

because I complained about you know normally don't complain a

1:12:44

little bit complaining to find them I complained about said they only talk about Venture Capital because

1:12:50

most important is that Founders knows that they have options if you only get

1:12:57

told there's only the Venture Capital races is wrong we have also the other way it's not about getting Venture

1:13:04

Capital it's about getting money you can also get some money from the customer you can invest in a financial guy

1:13:11

getting venture capital or you invest in sales getting the money from the customer and then it's all about it not

1:13:18

talking about technology is really talking about products it's a technology made for a market fit

1:13:25

it's a product it was with a certain need and it's about selling this product I

1:13:30

mean you have to get you have to force send money to come to you and say this is a good way of course I mean if you

1:13:37

are the text starter when you come from University you have the tendency to go on to move on with this development this

1:13:44

is your comfort zone you can develop you know also know how to write grants so in

1:13:49

science you write grants you get money it's like writing a Quran for Venture Capital to get money

1:13:55

you're always doing the same but it's not about development it's not

1:14:01

about hiring the next developer you have to do sales and this is what we did the

1:14:07

right way from the beginning we focused on sales and we still focus on sales

1:14:13

because besides we get the money we are profitable and then we fully own some money and can invest it

1:14:20

so this is my advice on on startups sell

1:14:27

s a device sells a product before you have it because if the customer

1:14:34

gives you money for it you know that it's worse to develop it and if you build up trust they will give

1:14:40

user money before I mean it's a slow way of growth but it's a steady Way Forward

1:14:46

and you have the freedom and you can always bring inventory Capital this is

1:14:51

always possible but if you have it once venture capital in

1:14:58

I don't have any idea how to get it out without more venture capital or an IPO send your enters one-way thing with

1:15:06

bootstrapping you have the freedom and always the other option

1:15:12

I couldn't agree more I think uh selling is also important for Venture Capital finance companies to always have an eye

1:15:19

on the market and find out what potential customers need and how well that really works I think theranos is a

1:15:26

is a good example how well selling works on the market even when you don't have a product

1:15:31

um it was I think it was in the podcast with Sebastian malappi he wrote the book The Power law which is basically I call

1:15:38

it a brief history of venture capital and I think he coins the term premature truth so it's just important to be

1:15:45

honest and open about the development situation and not treated like this awareness team to just say we have what

1:15:54

we don't have then I think put tripping bugs really really well and there are always customers on the market who are happy to be the first ones yeah but when

1:16:01

you don't find a customer when you're on the market it's the same with fundraising when a company is on the

1:16:07

delivery really diligently on the market for more than one year and there is no not one investor showing up and not one

1:16:13

customer basically it might also be the the idea is wrong I think we I mean we found it's a

1:16:20

company in 2008 but the whole journey began in 2006 and I think we had no

1:16:26

customer for three years there was nothing [Music]

1:16:32

nicer customer no Venture Capital Money what kept you going we never thought about failing yeah it's

1:16:39

a very tough situation maybe bankrupt the next day but failure was not in our mind we we had to believe that we have a

1:16:46

powerful technology in our hands and if it fails it's because us and said we don't do it the

1:16:53

right way said we don't try hard enough so

1:16:58

this failure was not in our mind we were completely convinced cerebral work and

1:17:04

this is I think what finally convince the first customer this was also also founder

1:17:10

base company and the founder knew our situation and so we had a we had a connection and it

1:17:17

was I I think they've seen said we fully believe in what we do

1:17:24

this is also when I'm a business Angel and look at teams I look at them if they believe if the founders

1:17:30

don't believe in the idea who else should we have to believe if I

1:17:37

don't believe in your own idea I mean sleep at night over it but maybe you should your sense should stop it we

1:17:44

have a question from the audience you see uh which I think is quite interesting and funny so let's get it in

1:17:49

the conversation when are the medicines available for every person that every disease is treatable what's your what's

1:17:57

your guess on that hopefully before it's too late for me so my master had cancer and was saved by

1:18:04

trusted someone had said team so am I afraid of getting cancer so my family is a certain history of cancer cases

1:18:12

and so I'm also afraid of getting cancer and so this is a thing also one reason

1:18:18

why I founded Nano timber because the so-called what can I what can I do to

1:18:23

improve the situation with cancer I don't want to be a victim of the Fate and one thing I can do

1:18:30

it can develop a drug but then it's one drug against one one cancer thing

1:18:36

but where have do I have the biggest Leverage and it was about tools for the

1:18:41

scientists so there are a lot of clever scientists thousands ten thousands of them if they have better tools

1:18:49

they can develop better drugs faster so this was

1:18:54

we have around 20 000 users now and if you're trusting about it if we improve the usability

1:19:01

of our device in a ways that we save the to sign this one hour per week we have

1:19:07

50 hours a 50 weeks one hour per week times 20 000

1:19:13

scientists is one million hours and there's a huge leverage one million hours more time doing to discover new

1:19:20

cancer drugs so as I said prediction about the future

1:19:25

especially tough but I strongly believe that every disease

1:19:31

is treatable and I hope so people get there and that everyone

1:19:37

has access to it it's very important that people have to access those as drugs and

1:19:43

so that we get this drugs quicker so every month's Council I mean every year

1:19:49

you have 18 million new cancer cases every every years is like the population of the Netherlands 18 18 million it's

1:19:57

more than one million new cases every month yeah so every month when we help a company to

1:20:03

release a cancer drug one month earlier you can save a lot of lives and if you are ill

1:20:10

and you really have the cancer every every month is every day is very important for you this is also why we

1:20:16

push so hard to be quick with our Solutions on the market because it makes a difference so I I don't know when this will be

1:20:24

but I push really hard so it will be sooner I think with with HIV HIV when I

1:20:30

remembered right was a deadly virus back in the 80s with a very very

1:20:37

short life expectancy after infection now it looks more like but correct me if

1:20:42

I'm wrong you're the expert here not me I'm from the final side um now it's like a manageable disease

1:20:50

and they heard from some scientists that people when they get the proper treatment can basically live a normal

1:20:55

life and don't infect anybody anymore which means they can also have kids and it's it happened at 80s 90s 2000s

1:21:03

2010 it's four decades uh do you see a similar development for cancer possible

1:21:08

I mean cancer is still a friend of mine died two years ago from cancer do you see that's possible also for

1:21:15

cancer to come to the same state like in HIV that it's a manageable disease and

1:21:21

that basically people can normalize can live normal lives yeah I think in leukemias you also had a YouTube

1:21:27

improvement over the last decades so some cancer cases are just not no

1:21:33

problem more but it's not only about drugs so we develop tools for for scientists that

1:21:39

develop drugs it's it's also about preventing the drug to happen I mean if

1:21:44

you look at cancer for men smoking alone is responsible for more cancer

1:21:51

cases and all see other things together can you repeat that because I still know people who say uh smoking is not if you

1:21:57

if you're a man and you smoke stop it if you want to prevent yourself to get

1:22:02

cancer stop smoking and women for women's it's also the case by the women's not so predominant in the

1:22:09

statistics there was a recent statistic in last year and Civil War said for the risk factors for cancer for men

1:22:15

the risk smoking impulses is more than all the other risk factors together

1:22:22

for women the risk is is it at all smaller because I think

1:22:28

they take more care of their of their health but also when smoking was not there was

1:22:33

also the biggest risk but not so dominant as a man but I'm stop smoking

1:22:38

prevention is the best thing and the funny thing is

1:22:43

our Munich headquarter is since the former Philip Morris fabrication oh really they produced

1:22:50

cigarettes in the fabrication and now we are in Syria to fight cancer

1:22:59

this is this is fate somehow funny life um

1:23:07

you said one million hours so basically you help saving time and

1:23:15

resources um the one question that I had in my mind when you mentioned that was I know

1:23:21

how much money I need to develop a new therapy so basically currently it's about three to four billion dollars to

1:23:28

develop something from the lab up to the market roughly statistics and also

1:23:33

checks canal in a previous podcast confirmed that he's doing a great research in the efficiency and

1:23:40

productivity of track development processes but then I thought I don't know the hours scientists have

1:23:48

to work to bring one track to the market just out of curiosity did you ever count the hours that uh scientists invest time

1:23:58

to develop a new truck no because the teams are different sizes is tough but what we know is we can

1:24:05

speed up so we had the case of a Pharma company with one of his new it was in the protag

1:24:11

OR IDP area where they struggle to get an essay in early drug Discovery is a struggle to get an essay working suspend

1:24:18

I think three months on it and got to know us they send us the samples we didn't know much about the

1:24:24

samples and we got the essay working the next day so we spent two days of work so

1:24:30

they they tried for three months and with our tools it was just two days cool

1:24:36

and now if you save several months I mean not it's good for the patient but

1:24:42

also if a blockbuster drug it's more than one billion dollar a year every month is around 100 million

1:24:49

dollar so if you are three months earlier on the market

1:24:55

it's 300 million euros our devices

1:25:00

processing in this case the device is 400 000 Euros invest 400 000 Euros

1:25:08

to get 300 million more easy calculation or yeah quite simple quite simple makes

1:25:14

sense makes sense logically um I mean you can do that now so when we switch a little bit away from the

1:25:21

science behind the Technologies and going more towards leadership Leadership Lessons don't I mean building a company with more than

1:25:27

200 employees is not easy and coming out of the lab I think uh

1:25:32

writing your PhD thesis getting the first customer is one important Milestone but then you have all the way

1:25:39

down to scale a company to a multinational business with more than 200 employees and what I see on LinkedIn

1:25:45

you're still hiring very very a lot of people it's called a lot of

1:25:50

people what are the three most important leadership lessons that you learned in

1:25:56

the last years when as you started Nano Temple the most important thing is walk the

1:26:03

talk you really have to live what you're speaking about you you have a culture

1:26:08

you have values and you have to lift them you can't

1:26:13

I mean when you say you treat everyone equally and your CEO and founder is not about

1:26:18

drinking champagne with your executive team and only with them it's also having a pier with everyone

1:26:25

with a beer with everyone in your production you have to treat everyone equally and it's your personality I mean

1:26:34

you can play a role for a certain time but over years it's

1:26:39

your personality you have to really have to live it and you have to start with yourself so

1:26:46

it's about in the beginning I did a lot of times wrong I complained about how others

1:26:52

behave and try to change them but you can't change others you can only

1:26:57

change your own attitude and your own behavior so as soon as I realized it

1:27:03

I got more coaches and also mentors and worked on myself and also got feedback

1:27:10

to improve things I did wrong and this is start with yourself

1:27:17

founder CEO or wherever you are you have to start with yourself

1:27:25

the first left in the second and third lesson I think the original second is start with yourself yeah yeah I always

1:27:31

experience that my own ego was my biggest hurdle to overcome when you hire better people you see

1:27:38

I could say to you it's tough to to see it or to let them go to trust them

1:27:43

also as a Founder you have been two people we were doing everything

1:27:49

and it's a Founder you grow if you give away things you give away things the responsibilities in another person

1:27:56

does it another way you do it your way another person does this a different way

1:28:03

and this is often tough to accept when we when we look inside your decision making processes

1:28:11

uh you mentioned this couple of times complaining so when I go

1:28:16

through the process step by step to work from realizing that there is a problem so that's the

1:28:23

solution and telling a person might be a solution threat solution what role does complaining play in that

1:28:30

decision I think just let me give a little bit more information about it

1:28:35

um when I look inside of me when I feel that something is wrong um I mean at the deal process would be

1:28:42

to the CR there is a problem here is the solution let's connect the dots and it's an easy and emotional

1:28:48

process a logical process unfortunately in my world it's not so it starts with

1:28:54

with this cat feeding it something is wrong then comes a phase of negativity

1:28:59

of complaining uh it might be internal it might be external but in my opinion it's necessary to come to the point that

1:29:05

they realize what the problem is that the fact that they can Define the problem so initially I don't have

1:29:11

clarity about the problem it's just an emotion and after just realized what the

1:29:16

problem is and they can Define it and they can name it then they can start working on the solution in your world how important is

1:29:24

complaining the complaint is one thing it's often you complain despite there is no

1:29:31

problem because it's a personal emotional thing for you there is no problem you just complain about the situation but in an

1:29:38

objective way there is no problem it's just a personal because something pissed you off someone pissed you off it's just

1:29:45

a personal thing and since you have to to stop to be honest to users just

1:29:51

complaining is about you and it's also saying negativity to

1:29:56

complain about politics also things you can't change for me this is an

1:30:01

excuse you know to work on the things you can change or you say oh it's so

1:30:07

tough to change but you can change you can help another person this has already changed a lot if

1:30:13

every person helps another person if everyone does it

1:30:20

you can achieve a lot and it's must I don't like this complaining it sets a wrong attitude

1:30:28

and then from the beginning if you start with with this attitude a lot of things goes wrong because you always have to

1:30:35

fight against and for misses mostly an excuse It's about us as did it wrong

1:30:41

says because I can't perform and this is an excuse

1:30:46

not always but often let's stay a little bit on the emotional side of leadership

1:30:51

how important are emotions in leadership in your opinion leadership it's all about emotions people follow you and we leadership it's

1:30:59

not about you it's about your people you're only a leader if someone follows

1:31:04

you and say follow you because you believe in you and the trust and you it's only

1:31:09

emotions it's personality it's emotions you have to talk with them in a very

1:31:15

emotional way because it's not about you it's about Sam a leader is defined by the followers

1:31:21

only by the followers only if you know the followers you can Define the leader

1:31:26

a leader alone is nothing it's just a person it's always a follower who are

1:31:32

important and so it's emotions how do you how do you treat employees

1:31:39

what's your what's your what's your learning in leadership what is the right way to approach employees

1:31:46

the thing you often read about eye level but if you talk about eye

1:31:51

levels the same eye level is already wrong

1:31:57

I think it would say normal I like people just normal

1:32:03

I I treat everyone equally at least I try

1:32:09

and this is the approach if I smile at one normal says person smiles back so

1:32:14

it's trust reading people know you always meet twice

1:32:19

Overstreet people nice and say always treat you the same way

1:32:26

when we talk about treating people in a nice and kind way if these days when you

1:32:31

read leadership books they are often about being kind and being nice to everybody then you look into the Sports World and

1:32:38

realize that athletes and top performing athletes very often seek people that

1:32:43

push them forward and the demand from them that they don't be nice so that

1:32:48

they just shouted them and scream at them to just get the best out of them where do you see in leadership in in

1:32:56

your world the balance between being kind and nice and also sometimes being unfriendly and pushy to move people

1:33:02

forward for their own benefit is their must be a balance or is it really either

1:33:07

or in your opinion I would say it's to be honest and transparent someone does something wrong

1:33:15

tells this person is wrong don't tell you a stupid or whatever just say it's wrong it's honesty

1:33:23

in transparency and it's all built on on trust the other things are just some mentality

1:33:31

things it's just like say how it is it's also learned in my from my Village times

1:33:37

with Craftsmen and farmers you take these things SAR and you

1:33:43

I think say area where I'm from Franconia we are known to be very direct and this is very efficient you don't

1:33:49

talk around you say what it is you try to get a image of the reality

1:33:55

and describes a reality and I think it's honesty when you say someone you did this wrong this person

1:34:02

can can learn you can you can say it a nice way or in a not so nice we're pushy way

1:34:09

but this is the second layer first you have to identify as reality it names a

1:34:15

reality and the rest is then communication and Communications also

1:34:21

it's bilateral I mean it's not a general thing you have to understand you have to

1:34:27

know the other person and then you can communicate it in a way but you think

1:34:32

it's best for the other person because there is information how you receive information is not about

1:34:39

how I talk is is about how you understand it so you have to give it to

1:34:44

you in a way I think you you can understand it and this can be a pushy some people like

1:34:51

the pushy way somebody who likes a very nice way so it's up to me as a leader or

1:34:56

manager to understand the best way of communication versus certain person

1:35:02

is it easy no it's very hard because you feel awesome and it's

1:35:07

I mean honesty and transparency in this trust help so I mean I often treat

1:35:12

people who are wrong and then you have to have the guts the ghost has the next day and say sorry if you can do this you

1:35:18

can solve a lot of problems and say we will very much appreciate it

1:35:23

if you say I'm sorry I treated you wrong this helps a lot if you do a mistake

1:35:31

be honest and stay to this mistake this helps and suspenserve a lot of trust

1:35:37

because it says you're open you're transparent and so this is what really people

1:35:43

appreciate if you're honest to them however tough it is you tell them they

1:35:49

will appreciate the honesty yeah I think especially in the the knowledge world that we have these days

1:35:56

it's important to keep people motivated and if leaders

1:36:01

fail in that I think they block a lot of energy and

1:36:06

Innovation cannot move forward when people feel blocked how do you see it

1:36:12

yeah when people have fear it can block innovation

1:36:18

some say it could also be a driver it's only it also depends on the person but fear

1:36:24

you should be you shouldn't be afraid of something you feel safe and I think it's also about feeling

1:36:31

trusted if you see someone believes in you you feel very confident to try the risky

1:36:37

things and there's also a way you have to control let's say say gossip sometimes people

1:36:43

are afraid because in the past something happened and since someone was fired and then people are afraid

1:36:50

to do the same thing but there's also a lot of assumption this is why it's

1:36:56

important to always actively communicate how you think and how you would react in such a situation

1:37:02

also when a new employee starts you tell them well I tell them I'm getting angry very quickly

1:37:09

and you will you will see it what's the next day I've it's it's over I'm fine again do you get angry very

1:37:15

quickly yeah I do really yeah and how do you manage that

1:37:22

I often have no stress ball I mean I need movement to control I think it's

1:37:28

really really helped about it I mean I read a lot from leaders that

1:37:35

they got into breathing exercises meditation have you ever explored that

1:37:41

route now for me it's running doing sports going outside walking around

1:37:48

I have to go into movement let's go to find your own some rituals what happens

1:37:55

then when you walk and it says to be outside so it frees my

1:38:00

mind I'm somehow stuck in a in a black tunnel with angry emotions and when I

1:38:08

when I changed my environment it happened to get out of this you know I can call it rabbit hole so we have to

1:38:14

change locations for it does it make a difference for you whether you walk alongside the easel in

1:38:21

other Outdoors nature compared to having a walk in the city

1:38:29

important is that it's outside can be City can be a forest can be a

1:38:34

river it can be a beach but it has to be outside not inside or the Oktoberfest

1:38:40

uh sometimes it's too much alcohol it could also go the wrong direction this

1:38:45

is true this is true let's stay a little bit with managing emotions and Innovation collaboration and success

1:38:53

when I was a student and I got my degree in economics business management

1:38:58

I had always this picture in mind that small companies are very Innovative and there were a lot of studies on the

1:39:04

market back then in the 90s already small companies are Innovative then defines the markets and then they have

1:39:10

the problem that to do the same thing over and over and over and over again and this is what takes the Innovation

1:39:18

out of the company because if when you want to serve millions of customers you need to do the same thing to deliver the

1:39:23

same product to the same customer group all the time and this also has the risk

1:39:29

that the company at a later point in time fails because customers move on competition arises and the company

1:39:35

already has lost the ability to be Innovative and successful so one part is

1:39:40

the leadership so to keep people motivated and moving forward and not being angry all the time and not evoke

1:39:46

emotions of fear the other side is structural I always thought this is the normal cycle you have a small company it

1:39:53

grows it fails it goes extinct and the next company comes and then there are these outlier companies on the market

1:39:59

like apple Microsoft Tesla for example and they seem to be Innovative over

1:40:06

decades what's your experience as a leader of an innovation company how can you maintain

1:40:14

the spirit of innovation while growing your company

1:40:20

this is a tough one I'm also not sure if Microsoft and Google and so could they explain because they're still quite

1:40:25

quite young maybe it's the old mark this German Mark was more than 150 years old

1:40:32

so you survive for a very long time or there's a hotel in Japan with more than which is more than 750

1:40:39

years 750 very old maybe sees also wants and I'm not sure if if Innovation really

1:40:47

helps you against Instinct Extinction it's just what we communicate that

1:40:53

Innovation is so I think it's a good customer or product Market fit with the customer you can

1:40:59

also innovate too quickly and it's so much for the market yeah it's tough to see I have no good

1:41:05

answer for it did you ever have a situation in your company where you felt you innovate too quickly for the market

1:41:11

the customers can't follow and we innovated too quickly for our own organization so we were launching

1:41:18

products new products so quickly is that we could scope up with the training of our sales team also with ramping up

1:41:25

the production so it was too many two new things in a too short time this can

1:41:32

happen I don't want to let you out of this room before we talk about one

1:41:37

question micromanagement so your success was basically focusing on sales very

1:41:43

early in your company which in my opinion qualifies you as the best salesperson in an organization

1:41:50

um but if you want to grow a company you need more sales people yeah uh and you said before that you want to

1:41:57

avoid micromanagement when you hire salespeople and you set up all the

1:42:03

structures you set up all the sales scripts uh you brought the first customers in

1:42:08

how can how do you manage yourself to stay away from macro management and

1:42:14

letting people make their own mistakes their own experiences how do you manage

1:42:19

that a single we hired people who tell us to stop micromanagement you always have the

1:42:27

tendency you have to try to have some influence or go into separations again because we have some pattern running and

1:42:33

you also need people actively stopping you so

1:42:39

maybe one thing is also to hire people who are allergic to micromanagement and tell you or leave it's a good science

1:42:45

and you said you did too much some people also like it maybe

1:42:52

but I think often you have to be stopped actively someone telling you hey you're too you're doing too many

1:42:59

things of micro management because often you start from your technical

1:43:05

experience you found it's a company you understand technology so your answer's leadership position

1:43:11

because you are an expert in technology then you hire more people then you have to manage and lead the people

1:43:18

which means you have less time for the technology but the technology was a thing which give you which gave you

1:43:25

power which which make you to feel secure but you're losing this all your

1:43:31

people in the team have more time with a technology so they're getting better than you

1:43:38

and if all your strengths is based on knowledge about the technology he wasn't afraid of the others

1:43:45

because they're not much better experts than you are because you'll spend most of your time in managing them

1:43:50

and out of this fear some people have the tendency

1:43:55

to control to gain power Again by micromanaging by controlling the people

1:44:02

in a sync this micromanagement is can be a symptom or sign for fear

1:44:09

I think what's also has me is I'm lazy I'm I'm too lazy to

1:44:14

to get all the details I'm just when I see it's the right direction

1:44:19

so I'm quite happy and I may be too lazy to go into the details I think this

1:44:26

helped me yeah I think it's important to to make to help the company thrive on the market

1:44:32

uh to let people just work to the work and not fall into the Trap of uh

1:44:39

sometimes employees come back and try to I would say delegate it back to the

1:44:44

leadership to get the work done it's also I think important to just really leave the task at the employee

1:44:52

until it's finished which then gives you the room to explore new routes outside

1:44:57

the company also read on your LinkedIn profile that you are a business Angel tell me more about it what is your life

1:45:04

as a presidential we as Nano demo we had a business Angel and we had a very very good experience

1:45:10

with Sim so we also bought back his shares to be completely independent but

1:45:15

the experience was so good we learned so much from him and he he was a guy in the beginning who

1:45:21

really believed in us and this is really we had a lot of Struggle No One believed in us and since this guy also a

1:45:29

non-entreneur in Munich from real estate business completely different business he believed in US

1:45:35

very strong and great personality and this really pushed us forward in the tough times they have such a person

1:45:42

believing in US and since now I want to give this also back to Founders because experience was

1:45:48

so great so for me business interest is not only

1:45:53

investing money I really have attitude also helps them to be fair some kind of

1:45:59

mentor and not going in testing here you have to do it this way

1:46:06

I can I can help them but they have to approach me what's the most important lesson that

1:46:13

you learned as a business angel I just started one and a half year ago I I think it's

1:46:21

more work than I expected and I'm I think most important lesson is

1:46:27

I'm I think I'm learning more than the founders

1:46:33

because there's no point of view gives me a lot of new insights what's

1:46:38

your investment criteria what are you looking for in Founders you say believe in the idea because they are the experts

1:46:45

the technical expert for their ideas they know it best often say I say one person in the world who know it best

1:46:53

and you can do a lot of due diligence or whatever thing do to feel safe

1:46:58

but it really look look at them do you believe do they have this fire this glow in their eyes when

1:47:05

they talk about their ideas of business and then look I'll say willing to learn

1:47:12

to say managed to go away from this technology development thing to to entrepreneur where we're selling and

1:47:19

getting money is important in several teams you have a no Sayer

1:47:27

there's a person who say everything in teams that don't invest because this

1:47:32

person this negative person can kill everyone this person is also the person who's not believing

1:47:38

in the idea and just got somehow into the team because

1:47:43

it's opportunistic I mean this this brings up a question that connects to the questions before

1:47:50

but also I think it's important for investors I mean situations in a company change companies

1:47:57

evolve and not everybody is a good fit at any stage in the company so sometimes it's necessary especially when it comes

1:48:03

to negativity to keep the team moving forward and not stopping in the development to also fire people what's

1:48:11

your approach as a business initial do you also give honest and open advice and say okay guys look I mean you have five

1:48:16

great people uh get rid of the sixth person because it really holds you back and you can't move forward with that

1:48:22

kind of negativity in the company up to now in ancestry Investments if I didn't have the situation but in my own

1:48:28

contact you and this is a I think it's the one very important thing which also

1:48:35

discriminates good company for let's say normal companies everyone can hire Everyone likes to hire

1:48:41

because it's a nice thing and the tough thing is firing talking

1:48:47

with someone looking this person's design and saying we have to separate

1:48:54

and seriously a lot of people fail they are afraid to fire someone because of the knowledge

1:49:01

of this person so long it's a company what will happen to it and then this is assignment of things we

1:49:07

can't fire this person because it's so important then you have to do it immediately because the next day will be even worse

1:49:14

and in my experience whenever we had have to let go someone

1:49:21

it has never become bad it just changed but it was never a big problem we're

1:49:29

still doing this too late because it's really really tough I know when you tell the other person

1:49:35

you know this person will have a tough time afterwards

1:49:40

but believe me I have this time before a lot of my gray hairs are from this

1:49:47

these things but this is what you have to do this is this is leadership the

1:49:52

tough decisions are about you and this is not hiring it's firing in one toxic person can kill

1:49:58

your whole team yeah that's true and you have nice people they won't tell you that you have to fire someone but

1:50:05

afterwards they come hey this was a good decision and tell you what what went wrong but not beforehand you have to

1:50:11

find ways to figure this out but send if if you keep this bad person

1:50:17

or toxic persons for your company your good people believe because they

1:50:23

Block in Minnesota it sounds very rude when I talk about bad or toxic persons

1:50:28

so often you start nice and then something in private life change or it's

1:50:33

just when your company evolves in the beginning you've been five people all in

1:50:39

the same room everyone knows everything about everyone and then company grows complexity

1:50:44

increases then you have to change and some people who are perfect fit for

1:50:50

10 people commonly are not for 100. and since they realize say candy go on

1:50:57

and sometimes have safer Behavior like building their own kingdom protected and

1:51:02

blocking the growth of the company and then you have to react so I I I've even been in friend

1:51:12

with some of these people and had to fire them which kills a relationship but it was about the company it was

1:51:19

it's all about as a person is it's bad it's just a fit between comedy and the person is not a fit anymore

1:51:26

how what did you find toxic behavior in a company what Behavior do you consider as being toxic for an organization

1:51:34

talking bad about other people blocking new ideas building Heavens is protecting

1:51:39

and stopping everything and also gossiping behind your back just gossip people

1:51:46

who who say hey you're nice guys and behind your backs you say you are back

1:51:52

it's it's a no-go and what about productivity

1:51:57

when you see that some people are not so productive it is also a reason why I say you have to draw a line or is it really

1:52:03

more on the behavioral behavioral inside team spirit now productivity is I said we trust our

1:52:11

people and we do and you have good days you have bad days sometimes you have a problem in private

1:52:18

life you're ill and you have to talk with each other and be honest and say hey I having a hard time at home

1:52:26

it influences my work please be patient with me

1:52:32

and this it has never been a problem when you being aware of the situation a person

1:52:38

has so honesty and transparency helps that's true that's true I had a

1:52:44

discussion recently on LinkedIn and I would like to ask you for your opinion on the topic especially when it comes to

1:52:51

Angel Investing in my world an investor is someone that

1:52:56

deploys Capital into a company to help the company grow so basically in a business essential way a company starts

1:53:02

has an idea needs some Investments their product does not qualify yet for finding customers International investor can

1:53:09

help the team to gets to the next step so this is my investment fuel on investment generally

1:53:17

it doesn't matter if it's a company if it's a business angel or a venture capitalist it's pretty much the same

1:53:23

road deploying Capital against equity in the last 10 years in the startup

1:53:28

world I learned that some startups have more uh let's say demands to their angel

1:53:36

investors that you also would like to see them bring in their Network on an operational level that some said

1:53:44

that they would like to see the angel investor working basically for free in the company where I always have this in

1:53:50

a conflict in USA but this is not investing so business Angel deploys Capital into a company to help the team

1:53:55

okay it can also be mentoring once in a while but the team needs to operate the

1:54:00

business and lately on LinkedIn I had the conversation via comments with some

1:54:07

initial funds some seed funds I will say yes of course I mean the investors need

1:54:13

also to bring in the network and also bring in their expertise and experience what's your opinion how do you see the

1:54:18

role of a business angel in a company and not not working for free it's also investing in being there as a mentor

1:54:26

but you have to define the role and you have to speak with the founders and Define Your Role what are your expectations this is more than money is

1:54:33

it's a network and then you have to agree on it it's also a communication there is no General

1:54:39

rule I would say it's about talk talking about it and agreeing

1:54:44

what do you expect from it other than what one site would deliver

1:54:49

it's about talking I don't like this general rules that's good you have something you can

1:54:55

you can hold on there are rules yes I mean you have found everything is new the crisis adventure and say no I have

1:55:02

this rules I can stick to the rules no it's you define your own rules within a

1:55:08

legal laws but you define the rules and you talk about it and while this complex accepts the

1:55:14

complexity and talk with each other this is most important you have to break the

1:55:19

rules as a startup you do new things dialect Clarity in in also in startups I

1:55:26

mean what I like is seeing investors on cap tables uh people especially and

1:55:31

organizations who can bring in capital into a company if they have expertise in the field of the company I think in my

1:55:37

opinion remember it's always a second contract so advisory contract or executive contract why not so it's one

1:55:43

is the investment contract the other one is the operational role or a mentoring role I don't like mixing up things so

1:55:49

seeing a lot of people on the cap table that provided Services some years ago in the start of the company and still own

1:55:55

two percent doesn't make sense to me have we all said this case since the

1:56:00

very early days we had a business age approaching us more or less it was

1:56:06

can we call him business entry maybe not but a person approaching us I give you 100 000 Euros I invest in you

1:56:14

and you hire me and I earn 100 000 Euros per year

1:56:21

was just okay you said you have it on your CV this makes no sense to to invest money in the company to take it out and

1:56:28

invest so this is completely unlaudible this is also what I

1:56:34

with some Force I think it has been Heidi grinder for also before they force you to have advisors so you

1:56:41

get money from them and then you have to spend 50 000 Euros for foreign

1:56:55

so to also why why investing 500 000 Euros and taking out 50

1:57:02

phone advisor why not trying to make the most out of the money it means also you don't trust the

1:57:09

founders you have to trust the founders as they do the best with your money if you don't trust them and you have to

1:57:15

control them with advisors don't invest yeah and I thought it's a waste of time and money I don't understand this

1:57:21

concept I understand it's you invest most of his managers are responsible for

1:57:27

foreign monies they don't own some money so you just got some money from family office whatever it's

1:57:33

it's not their own money so a risk aware so she tries to manage the risk and we

1:57:39

associate waste money I mean my personal preference is to have on the cap table fans who can capitalize

1:57:46

capitalize the company in tough times or when the company opens a new market and can it has the ability to grow quicker

1:57:52

with more capital are an investor can be on the payroll when the investor brings expertise to

1:58:00

the table that's necessary for the stage of the company but but I mean if I

1:58:06

invest money I don't need money I should pay myself it's I mean investors standard on the payroll

1:58:12

you invest the money because you have it you would work for free for the company I don't work for it for the company I I

1:58:19

help them and they need me but I won't it makes no sense to me because when I can invest money it means I have enough

1:58:25

money and then putting yourself on the payroll is

1:58:31

it's not it makes no sense to me because as a business agent you have to be aware that you lose this money it's high risk

1:58:37

business you believe in the team you want to help them so this money is a wave for me and I

1:58:45

getting on a payroll it's also not

1:58:51

know it makes no sense I mean so companies here in Austria where basically the business Angel

1:58:57

um dedicates uh their full work time 40 hours per week to the company

1:59:04

um where I would say okay I mean but this is work for the company it is I don't it's not an investment role

1:59:09

anymore yeah so it's more a combination of executive and investor and in such cases they would say why not separated

1:59:15

and say okay when you're an executive let's be open and honest with a lot of people that this is an important part of

1:59:20

the company and for future fundraising it would also go down the drought to

1:59:25

find a solution with future investors to also pay a remuneration when a person dedicates for the hours of their lives

1:59:31

to the company you know like I said you said you separate the roles I couldn't produce that I invest

1:59:37

and take over the CEO role or whatever this trust means I don't believe them and suddenly it's just a lot of work if

1:59:43

you want to have a lot of work but it's it's for me it's much nicer to

1:59:50

to help the guys and to see how they evolve as an outsider sitting back and

1:59:56

looking at them makes me makes me proud and I don't want to have

2:00:02

to spend work real work into it I believe them they are the

2:00:09

experts they know it best when they need help they approach me and this is perfect

2:00:14

so I think we have the same opinion then if I understood you right as an investor as a natural investor you invest in the

2:00:19

company you deploy Capital yeah but you don't work for the company exactly and you want to have teams that you can

2:00:26

trust that they are the best solution for developing the product forward and finding product Market fit yeah and you

2:00:33

don't interfere with them is accept some mentoring or some some support factors but you don't go to

2:00:39

their office and tell them how to do that oh they know it best I mean it makes absolutely no they could have started say when they

2:00:46

know something best it starts a business by myself yeah so we come back to trust yeah exactly

2:00:51

Philip I could go on talking with you and the sleeper I see on the clock that we already coming close to two hours

2:00:58

talking uh I would like to ask me two final questions if this is fine with you

2:01:05

uh didn't miss anything in this episode is there any question open that you

2:01:10

would like me to ask I'm a Singapore because it's two hours I think we talked about a lot

2:01:19

no we also we even had trolling bikhar in our conversation that's great that sounds great yeah this engage thing no I

2:01:26

didn't miss anything then let me ask you my final question you have a lot of experience as a

2:01:33

scientist you grow up you grow out of a small village in Bavaria went to a

2:01:38

university started your company uh you have built a really impressed pressing

2:01:45

success story with Nano Tempo I mean scaling a company to over 200 employees in a multinational environment is not an

2:01:52

easy job especially in the last three years with all these shutdowns and you mentioned before that you like talking

2:01:58

to people in person I think lockdowns must have been a tough time to change the leadership style you amended that

2:02:04

perfectly you kept your company growing and you are still hiring and flowing with a company

2:02:11

when you would have a chance to step into I think it's also Star Trek

2:02:17

start records of this time travel yeah or H2 Wells if you could get a time machine and travel back to your younger

2:02:25

self let's say around 2000. uh what advice with all the experience

2:02:32

you gained in the last 23 years what advice would you give your younger self

2:02:38

so I would never do this because knowing my younger self because what I do is I like to listen to

2:02:45

people and but I do my thing so I get all the information

2:02:51

but it's about information or influence so my advice would be not only to my

2:02:56

younger self because afterwards you always know no better

2:03:01

do your thing and thing is really about do get all this information available talk

2:03:08

with a lot of people gets advices but two and no

2:03:14

people's experience with you experience experience are from the past experience

2:03:19

are limited when something was impossible in the past reconsider it

2:03:24

because situation the past was different and now and in the future is a new technology things who have been which

2:03:31

have been impossible in the past may now be possible so take the vices takes the

2:03:37

experience particular you are now and there is a future

2:03:42

so to it to your sink that's great advice get going get

2:03:48

started Philip had a great time in the last two hours talking to you you shared important Leadership Lessons important

2:03:55

lessons how to move company forward I wish you and your team all the best thank you please please please keep

2:04:01

going and really work hard on making every disease treatable I think it gives back so much quality in life when people

2:04:08

know that there are other people working to keep them safe and healthy it's a

2:04:14

it's the best thing I ever heard uh in the last 108 episodes in my opinion saving the world thank you that's great

2:04:20

that's awesome thank you enjoyed it very much me too me too and normally now I

2:04:26

would push the I would click the mouse to end the recording uh here I think we

2:04:31

have to I need to wait engage

2:04:36


 

(Cont.) #109: Philipp Baaske's Journey: From Small Village to Biotech Entrepreneur
(Cont.) #109: Philipp Baaske's Journey: From Small Village to Biotech Entrepreneur
(Cont.) #109: Philipp Baaske's Journey: From Small Village to Biotech Entrepreneur
(Cont.) #109: Philipp Baaske's Journey: From Small Village to Biotech Entrepreneur