Join us in this episode as we talk to Philipp Baaske, CEO of Nanotemper, and explore the ins and outs of building a successful biotech startup. We cover topics such as bootstrapping, finding customers, developing effective leadership skills, and more. Gain valuable insights and advice from Philipp's experiences as a business angel and entrepreneur. Tune in to learn how to build and scale a successful biotech startup.
đź’ˇ LINKS TO MORE CONTENT
If you like the episode, become a subscriber and support the show: https://lsg2g.substack.com/subscribe
Philipp Baaske
Christian Soschner
đź“– Memorable quotes:
(36:18) "First of all, I disagree with Steve Jobs, it's important to talk with customers about their problems, but it's really about the problem, not talking about a technical solution."Â
(48:17) "If you don't fail, you do something wrong because if it always works, you don't do the risky thing; you just do the easiest thing."
(01:10:20) "This is my advice on startups: sell. Sell a product before you have it because if the customer gives you money for it, you know that it's worth developing it."
(01:12:39) "We never thought about failing. Failure was not in our mind."Â
(01:19:31) “I strongly believe that every disease is treatable.”
⏰ Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(02:30) The Impact of SVP Bankruptcy on Entrepreneurship
(06:41) The Importance of Proper Risk Management
(09:51) Absolute Focus on the Things You Can Influence
(12:05) Managing a Global Team: Trust, diversity, and decentralized decision-makingÂ
(14:56) Trusting the Best People
(17:01) Hiring with Gut Feeling and CV-Application Letter Match
(20:32) Marketing and Cultural Diversity
(28:43) The Importance of Product-Market Fit Over Funding and Investors
(29:12) Finding Customers vs Finding Investors
(33:43) Milestones and Helping Customers
(38:00) Talking to Customers About Their Problems
(40:06) Identifying Markets and Competitors
(42:56) Unlocking New Cancer Treatment Pathways
(45:26) Overcoming Failure in Startups and Drug Discovery
(48:49) Breaking Out of Confinement and Pursuing Goals
(56:37) Impact of Upbringing on Entrepreneurial Spirit
(57:33) Stop complaining, start improving: lessons from Vienna
(01:00:04) Curiosity-driven education: finding a passion for physics
(01:03:21) Experimenting in microgravity: sending projects to the ISS
(01:14:20) Startup advice: focus on sales and steady growth
(01:12:39) Overcoming adversity: believing in our technology
(01:15:31) The potential of every disease being treatable
(01:18:22) The impact of smoking on cancer risk
(01:23:17) Leadership lessons: walking the talk and starting with yourself
(01:26:35) Emotiona
Listen on: Apple Podcasts  Spotify
Streamlined MediaDo you want to support the podcast team?
Join the LSG2G Newsletter as a paying member: Link
Join us in this episode as we talk to Philipp Baaske, CEO of Nanotemper, and explore the ins and outs of building a successful biotech startup. We cover topics such as bootstrapping, finding customers, developing effective leadership skills, and more. Gain valuable insights and advice from Philipp's experiences as a business angel and entrepreneur. Tune in to learn how to build and scale a successful biotech startup.
đź’ˇ LINKS TO MORE CONTENT
If you like the episode, become a subscriber and support the show: https://lsg2g.substack.com/subscribe
Philipp Baaske
Christian Soschner
đź“– Memorable quotes:
(36:18) "First of all, I disagree with Steve Jobs, it's important to talk with customers about their problems, but it's really about the problem, not talking about a technical solution."Â
(48:17) "If you don't fail, you do something wrong because if it always works, you don't do the risky thing; you just do the easiest thing."
(01:10:20) "This is my advice on startups: sell. Sell a product before you have it because if the customer gives you money for it, you know that it's worth developing it."
(01:12:39) "We never thought about failing. Failure was not in our mind."Â
(01:19:31) “I strongly believe that every disease is treatable.”
⏰ Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction
(02:30) The Impact of SVP Bankruptcy on Entrepreneurship
(06:41) The Importance of Proper Risk Management
(09:51) Absolute Focus on the Things You Can Influence
(12:05) Managing a Global Team: Trust, diversity, and decentralized decision-makingÂ
(14:56) Trusting the Best People
(17:01) Hiring with Gut Feeling and CV-Application Letter Match
(20:32) Marketing and Cultural Diversity
(28:43) The Importance of Product-Market Fit Over Funding and Investors
(29:12) Finding Customers vs Finding Investors
(33:43) Milestones and Helping Customers
(38:00) Talking to Customers About Their Problems
(40:06) Identifying Markets and Competitors
(42:56) Unlocking New Cancer Treatment Pathways
(45:26) Overcoming Failure in Startups and Drug Discovery
(48:49) Breaking Out of Confinement and Pursuing Goals
(56:37) Impact of Upbringing on Entrepreneurial Spirit
(57:33) Stop complaining, start improving: lessons from Vienna
(01:00:04) Curiosity-driven education: finding a passion for physics
(01:03:21) Experimenting in microgravity: sending projects to the ISS
(01:14:20) Startup advice: focus on sales and steady growth
(01:12:39) Overcoming adversity: believing in our technology
(01:15:31) The potential of every disease being treatable
(01:18:22) The impact of smoking on cancer risk
(01:23:17) Leadership lessons: walking the talk and starting with yourself
(01:26:35) Emotiona
Listen on: Apple Podcasts  Spotify
Streamlined MediaDo you want to support the podcast team?
Join the LSG2G Newsletter as a paying member: Link
6:30
I think I saw it first on the LinkedIn post yeah yeah I think it was pretty
6:36
amazing because it happened last week if I remembered right on Wednesday and Thursday and on Thursday so the first
6:43
post on LinkedIn it's pretty amazing how social media works these days yeah yeah it's quite
6:51
quick and it's I think it's very important for all people in in the tech industry so in our
6:58
networks which are all about deep Tech I think it was natural that it flopped
7:04
up because it's so important yeah natural was good Twitter was filled with comments from chasing color
7:10
counties for example from the audience podcast and David sucks he was one of the founders of PayPal and they were
7:17
communicating a lot about the impact on the entrepreneurial landscape what's your opinion about the impact of the SVP
7:25
bankruptcy on entrepreneurship here in Europe do we see any I think we will know afterwards as always in this crisis
7:32
you know also with 2008 is what we call now financial crisis what will be the impact of this let's
7:39
call it maybe it's a crisis maybe not I think we all know said the predictions
7:44
are hard especially about the future so we will know afterwards what the
7:50
impact was what I see is as an entrepreneur for me it's more important
7:56
does it impact me and what can I do it maybe impacts the whole industry but
8:03
I can't change it I can't do anything to improve the situation for the Silicon Valley Bank
8:08
also the whole Bank thing what I can do is to improve the situation for my company
8:14
and this is what I do I focus on the things I can do I can change I can influence
8:21
and I don't let myself be disturbed with all this news is panic there's a lot of talking about it what will happen to us
8:28
I can't change it so I focus on the things okay what can I do with my company what can I do with my people and
8:34
this is what I try to focus on and not to get myself distracted I follow the news yes
8:40
it's because it was interesting to me what happens here but I don't let myself be disturbed by
8:46
it or to get to be afraid of something and really focus on the now what can I do and send
8:53
that c in in one year what's interpretation of this incident will be
8:58
how do you do that I mean social media is Fields these days with bad news actually and I learned during the
9:04
pandemic to use social media on a daily basis and Facebook Twitter and Linkedin when something happens like SVP is just
9:11
filled with bad news and I see the same way that you do actually accounts to
9:16
anything against it yeah so why focus on that how do you tune yourself out of social media when you see there is a lot
9:23
of negative negativity coming up how do you do that there's a lot of speculation so on the serious talking talking about
9:30
speculations but the big changes always live on a longer time scale
9:36
and now I I Source it's a US Government took some action Biden made a statement
9:41
so they do something and this is fine for me and I think they will stay with a statement
9:46
and I just don't read the things I just okay yes it will happen something and
9:52
then trust people have a good Network and I think if it really gets dangerous and something will really happen to us
9:59
I will be told I mean what we have checked is I mean trust your guts feeling tells you
10:04
never have all your asset at One Bank we have several Banks and we also look
10:10
okay do we have a a certain risk there with everything at one account and we don't
10:17
have so this is what I watched that do we have a principal risks here and now you have a lot of reading about
10:24
what should have been done to avoid this but you know afterwards you always know
10:29
it's the trick is to know it before and no one knew before no one predicted this
10:35
so I just don't don't read the news about it yeah I think this is what they mentioned is the key Point get a good
10:41
Financial guy in the company who is doing proper risk management so what
10:47
I've saw on LinkedIn very often was that companies complaints that all the liquidity was in One Bank tied up during
10:56
the crash of SVP and they didn't have any second bank account or third bank
11:01
account so I think your advice is really great when I compare 2023 with the year
11:08
you started your company Nano temper it was in 2008 yeah it feels to me today
11:13
that we have a similar situation in 2023 like it was in 2008 how did you
11:18
experience 2008 back then the financial crisis when you started your company well we started a company out of PhD
11:26
studies and when I when I sit back and think about
11:31
this time what happens here so I was so focused on starting Nano Timber
11:36
I knew there was something happening with lemon Brothers and it was anyway tough to get money
11:43
but this financial requires a hotel every everyone it was difficult at this time to get money because it's a
11:48
financial crisis but this is looking back during this time my crisis my whole Focus was Nano Timber
11:56
to get it started to get money to get products to get customers
12:02
so I was so much in those daily operational thing so they had no time
12:08
to be afraid of this crisis or to have it top of her mind and this is also a thing which I think is important
12:15
focus on what you do and this also helps you to ignore
12:20
these things maybe ignoring is the wrong word I mean it's something happening you
12:26
should take it seriously but not put your focus on it I think yeah is it a
12:31
bad word let me just think about it I was I have a business background and in 2008 there
12:38
was part of some let's say interest groups and there was this whole discussion about will we survive next
12:46
year what will happen is the economy failing is the financial industry failing and the entire Focus was on the
12:52
problem so I think what you said I read it very often for our inbox um from Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk that
12:59
they also have this ability to focus their retention on the task at hand rather than all this chatter around it
13:07
advice that you would give entrepreneurs these days to do it similar like you did in 2008 to focus on driving their
13:14
business forward instead of getting distracted from Market to evalences Absolute focus on the things you can
13:20
influence you have an impact on and set up your company in a way that you can react
13:26
as always I mean Germany entrepreneur is called unter Nima some under name I mean
13:32
someone who does something so you always have to be in a position where you can do something
13:38
and you this is what you have to do you bring you have to bring yourself in a position where you can act and
13:45
react and only think about the things you can change
13:51
how do you how do you do that on a personal leverage a lot of curiosity um when something happens in your
13:57
company um what's what's your North Star to decide is it an important thing to focus
14:03
on or is it something that you can prioritize a little bit down on the list
14:10
how do you do that I would say in a very pragmatic scene when something happens
14:16
I sleep over it and if I can't sleep well during the night and I dream about it
14:22
I know there is something serious happening at least emotionally for me
14:28
and the other thing is I trust my people so say all selected it's a great team
14:34
and I trust them and I'm I'm sure that we can adapt to everything
14:40
which is coming and this helps me to sleep most of them of the nights so I think there's a trust
14:47
in your people if you if you can't trust your people you have a problem you have to change this but trust in your people
14:54
really your team together you can achieve a lot this will help you whatever the situation is you can adapt
15:00
to it let's talk a little bit about your company Nano Temple uh mentioning people
15:06
and the team is a great hook for the for the next question when you reached out to me asking if we can do a podcast
15:12
together as a nano Tempo it's a barbarian company and you automatically ended up in my
15:18
small company pocket so I thought now temperatures the usual European life science company 15 to 20 employees and
15:24
it's rather small then I started I didn't do my research very properly so sorry for that and then I started doing
15:31
some research on your company and started posting also on LinkedIn and put
15:37
the event website up and every day another employee popped up and
15:43
the next employee and the shared all the content I posted and then I thought
15:49
this hour already 15 and then we have the number 16 and number seven so I must be wrong this was the first time when it
15:56
looked at accidentally your LinkedIn profile for your company and so that you have 197 employees on LinkedIn and if I
16:05
read the internet properly I think it's close to 230 employees that you have currently in your company uh can you
16:12
give me the right picture of a company to size and where it's operative in which countries
16:18
if you know 237 people we have 30 nationalities in the company
16:24
in fact it is a lot third year we were just sitting in Copenhagen with a team and counted how many nationalities we
16:31
have and we counted 30. so I was also surprised with so many may I ask you which nationalities it's from Trinidad
16:38
Tobago Japan yeah it's from South Africa to Norway so very International very
16:44
diverse a great team and we are headquarters Munich but we have also subsidiaries in
16:52
San Francisco in the Boston area in Bangalore Shanghai peaking in Tokyo just
16:58
to name a few of them so very International as a business is international so this is a flying word which means
17:05
business is local so you have to be it's a customer so we have the customer in
17:10
the focus so we are as a customers and this is a hot Sports everyone knows Boston area so
17:16
hotspot for biotech so very strong in Boston area so so we follow the market and the
17:22
customer how do you do that if you've mentioned you have employees in Japan in Boston in
17:29
San Francisco and the Munich so it's basically a global operation how do you manage that on a daily basis having
17:35
phone calls during the night during the day it's basically 24 7 business so management is all about trust when
17:43
you trust the people and I trust the people you don't have to manage them you don't have to micromanage them you
17:49
trust them they are selected we believe in them we trust them we work together very well
17:54
so it's not about talking every day say no to do that job
18:00
you know when you when you start up a company you have to hire really peoples that are better than you
18:05
who can really do such up this is tough you know you started it and send you hire new people and say do
18:12
the truck better than you do it's tough when you see them okay wow so you're doing so much better what have
18:18
I done the last years but this means also you have to let them do their job you don't have to disturb them for doing
18:25
such a job so you trust them and sends they do their business and Japan in San Francisco wherever they do
18:31
it and say we'll call you when the need advice of course you synchronize the
18:37
company you have tools web tools like assana which are Global in the cloud which
18:43
helps you to synchronize everything in a synchronous communication is very
18:49
important in transparency so that people can see what is happening and use their brain power to interpret
18:56
it and to become to get into doing so the assumption is we trust the people we have the best people
19:02
and we enables them to do their job so this is how we set up the company
19:08
I think this is an important part not micromanaging your team to create a larger entity
19:14
you mentioned that one of your most important criteria is to hire people
19:19
that do their jobs better than you can do it I'm curious now how do you what's your
19:27
decision criteria when do you feel that somebody is doing a better job than you do I mean I always have the problem when
19:34
somebody is better than me I mean I can try it because it's it is better but uh how much better and is he really better
19:40
is something which is beyond my expertise how do you manage that
19:46
but experience and learning in the beginning I had to learn how to touch this what tough maybe in 90 life been
19:52
wrong so it was tough times to learn a lot of mistakes hard for both sides so
19:57
you hire people you touch them wrongly I've been also not you know a bad leader
20:03
or in manager so we had to adapt and learn and most importantly learn my guts
20:09
feeling so it's a lot about the CV and the application letter if this fits together
20:16
and from the cvcv you learn about the technical skills and with the application letter
20:23
if it matches to the CV so in the CV for a certain skill set you have a certain personality and when you write it in the
20:31
application it has to fit so this is and send a personal meeting
20:37
and God's feeling I figured out that a meeting a job interview via teams does
20:43
not work for me it has to be in person on teams that do misjudgments
20:48
and I also and since God's feeling just got sphere is
20:55
as simple as it sounds it's God's feeling but this is not scalable with the company of our size
21:01
this is not scalable and also have some problems it's only my gut's feeling
21:06
but it's not about me it's about the company so I know we also need people to come
21:12
forward where maybe my gut's feeling is not working anymore and since it was one
21:18
learning in the last year to scale the company also Stephanie become bottlenecks and
21:24
hiring and you you have to hire diverse people
21:29
also people you may be personally you don't have a perfect fit
21:36
and so you can do this with your executive team with your leadership team you can scale up the hiring
21:43
you you talk about the culture and the value of the company and just gives you a Direction
21:49
what kind of people you can you can choose I think it's always challenging
21:54
when I mean when starting a company initially it's just people around the core expertise of the company where it's
22:01
easy to charge who is good so it's not so good uh when it's a promotion who doesn't need a promotion who is
22:06
ambitious who is not ambitious but when entities are getting bigger as you said the skill set becomes more and more
22:13
diverse so from coming from a technically scientific perspective what's your North Star to charge for
22:20
example business people uh and to church with your gut feeling uh lawyers for
22:25
example how do you how do you feel that they are the right fit for your company and that they provide the right expertise
22:31
there's a lot of personality of if I can trust some I don't work together with people I can't trust I don't work
22:39
together with people I would need a contract to work with them we always made make a contract it's it's
22:44
professional but it's a judgment of personalities yeah this is
22:50
really it's about trust if they're honest transparent and if we can trust them this is the
22:57
main sometimes if it's not the case I don't do the business because it's
23:03
driven we can decide and if we do if we don't feel good with it we don't do it there's a thing
23:09
we are we only say company fully we are independent we have the freedom so if we have a bad feeling with someone
23:16
We Trust our feelings and our experience that means in a multinational business a
23:22
lot of traveling basically you said you manage your operations personally in
23:28
person not so much via teams and you have companies in U.S Japan so you're
23:34
basically all the time on the road no we can do it if I mean if I do a job
23:40
interview I can't judge a person with your teams but if I know a person if there was one
23:47
person in a meeting or a few of them it works very well about teams and the thing is because we have so great people
23:54
we have very low fluctuations so a lot of people stay very long with us so we
23:59
know each other very well we fill up the trust we build up a communication level where we really understand each other
24:05
and this makes it very effective and efficient because of this good knowledge when you have the leadership team where
24:12
most of the people have been with the company for five or six years you really know each other sense and communication is
24:19
easy also about different time zones and different locations but for me a few times especially in the
24:26
beginning I need this personal contact to to get to know each other and
24:32
the good thing is we can also invite some to Munich it's Oktoberfest every October
24:37
it's Oktoberfest it's September you invite the people and get to know each other yeah and often beer is a good
24:44
Icebreaker we can sell it as Europeans that with the Oktoberfest it's a great event
24:50
um I mean what I see on the internet from your company uh your marketing is great
24:56
it's perfect you have uh I think it's free slong so that I remember one is creating a world in which every disease
25:03
is curable I like it very much and then there are one or two
25:08
correct me if I'm wrong making the invisible visible to make the untrackable trackable
25:14
these were the first songs that I saw on your website and they jumped really into my eyes
25:20
um how did you come up with these loans what was the process behind it so we have a really good marketing team
25:27
and and Trust lean she's working on the
25:32
west coast she's really great in condensing the messages and the feeling to this so
25:40
she just lean brought up this a greater world where every disease is treatable
25:45
or better it's we want to help to achieve this and send me a Creed on the team we
25:52
discussed it how we feel about it and then we've we've chosen it and then you see I mean you see what's
25:58
sticking if you write down a sentence you talk about it and no one remembers
26:04
it if it doesn't stick it's not a good messaging if it sticks like this hair
26:09
creative over everything is treatable or we mix the invisible visible to drugs and druggable
26:15
the sticks and it's a good message let's let's come to a tough topic you
26:23
started a company in Munich and your marketing is in San Francisco out of curiosity you don't have to
26:29
answer but you have experience with marketing people in Europe and you have experience with marketing people over on
26:35
the West Coast where do you see the differences what's what's different between marketing approaches in Europe and in the United
26:42
States are pretty much the same or are there different strengths that you can use for your company
26:47
yes they have different strengths so this is a good thing when you have a global company
26:53
I mean we have Italian design for the products we have this German engineering
26:58
and we have West Coast marketing so and also we have studied nationalities in
27:04
the company we don't think about okay who is better than the other you think where's the strengths and then we
27:11
combine it and and make something great from it so take the best basically from our
27:18
cultures yeah German internship you started a company in 2008 with your co-founder Stefan tour
27:24
and you had the idea to start nanotember Technologies when I remember my time in
27:29
the 90s when I finished my university studies and got my degree basically the majority of people got one
27:36
advice from their parents Golf and the job in a real company and don't do anything adventurous like funding a com
27:42
starting a company what was your motivation to not go down the farmer
27:48
route or the academic route and this is decides I start my company
27:54
I think there was an opportunity to start it so we during our PhD teases
28:00
Stefan we had a project together and send weave we redef discovered and infected covers
28:07
called time of reasons the funny thing is that time of releases was you know here in Vienna
28:14
in time of reason it was first described here in Vienna in Vienna really Mr Ludwig described it it was in 1856.
28:22
there's a publication it's a one-page so if you read it you don't understand it it published it in the academy media
28:29
so we rediscovered this effect during our PhD teases and the thing was
28:35
it was described in the wrong way so everyone thought what we do is
28:40
impossible because the theory told it's a publication told it's impossible but
28:46
experiment showed it's possible and so it was good for the patent application if everyone thinks it's
28:53
impossible your inventive step is there so we found this effect we realized by
29:00
talking with peoples and it was Mr finals from Roche he brought us to
29:06
the protein business and say our technology is missing and we realized there is a opportunity
29:12
say to do something and this is also typically for entrepreneurs as I said
29:19
under Neymar Neiman you do something and the thing
29:24
you have an opportunity and then you do it a single maybe it's a singers
29:32
I'm not a person seeing the risks first I'm seeing the opportunities first so there was an opportunity and we just
29:40
took it so you started with Stefan tour in 2008 based on a Patent filed in Austria in
29:48
1856 it was basically the time of the monarchy so yeah almost 170 180 I don't have excellent
29:55
unfortunately here under 170 years roughly ago I think our politicians could be happy here in Austria so it's
30:02
basically an Austrian patent is uh successful in the world thanks to your team in 2008 you were two people
30:09
when you started the company now you're to over 230 and in 2008 it
30:15
was Germany Munich and now it's Japan it's Europe Munich
30:21
it's Boston it's San Francisco when you look at this pathway in this
30:27
timeline from 2008 up to now what were the most notable free Milestones on your
30:33
journey one thing I can remember very well was how we sold the first device so we did a
30:40
lot of demonstrations to the research group also to companies
30:47
and I think 30 of them failed but we we kept them on trying we really had a strong belief
30:53
and since there was a commonly in Munich it was grelogs and we had to say gave samples to us
31:02
and told us if you get system running we will buy a device from you
31:08
so can very well remember I was sitting it was a 23rd December of 2009
31:15
so day before Christmas I was sitting on the in the lab on the microscope a very basic setup
31:21
and it was doing the experiments and was working really hard until the night because I want to get it
31:27
finished to visit my parents for Christmas so we finished the experiments there
31:33
send the data to gray looks and win for Christmas and New Year's Eve
31:39
in January 2000 2010 greylocks fondas
31:46
yeah you can win Stars we will buy super and San
31:52
bought the device before we headed just a
31:57
transferred money to us and this is money we bought the parts for the first device and we built the
32:03
device receptive to Sam in March and from the money we got we bought say parts for the
32:10
next two devices cool and since this time we are profitable and I think in 2000
32:17
10 we already sold 30 devices that's super it reminds me of it I don't I think it was both airplane Microsoft
32:24
didn't start similar I think they also had the first customers got some upfront
32:30
payments and then produced what they needed to produce I mean when we stay a little bit that
32:37
this is what you did from 2008 to 2010 getting your first customers in basically product Market fit when I look
32:43
on the market before 2023 and uh think about my experience with incubation
32:48
program acceleration programs it always felt to me that the utmost priority was
32:53
founding investors also when I read through Linkedin these days maybe it's just my power but there are a lot of
32:59
info it's a lot of information how to find your investor how to pitch to investors how to get your company
33:04
fitting with the investors need and vice versa and you went down a different route you found customers
33:12
in your opinion when you look at the markets today what's your advice to entrepreneurs would you rather go for if
33:19
you just make have to make a decision would you rather go for product Market fitting these economic environment or
33:26
would you also spend some resources on finding investors to move your company forward
33:31
my advice would always be Focus make a decision so it's about look inside
33:36
yourself what do you want is independence and freedom important for you
33:42
or want to have will become rich or want to have a lot of money I mean went to Capital private Equity
33:49
dominates the news so social media companies are backed by Venture Capital private equity and we read social media
33:55
so it's obvious that they will talk about funding how they've been founded
34:00
because they have to promote their own story but this is not the only way I mean
34:06
important is that you have a choice you have the choice between bootstrapping or Venture Capital both are okay
34:13
you have to be aware in venture capital you have to make them Rich they give you
34:19
money said you make more money out of it than others can do this is why you say give you money and they want to sell
34:26
and then you have to think okay okay I have the first vendor capital they want to sell in five years what
34:32
happens then the next venture capital guy or comedy bias it and send the next the
34:38
next and you have to do an IPO or a strategy guy company buys you or
34:45
you're bankrupt these are the options it's you have to be aware if you start with venture
34:51
capital you take this route this is absolutely fine this is a good route
34:57
but you have to be aware what you do and say as a route is
35:02
maybe it's a bootstrapping route you may grow slower you know but you
35:07
grow with some money of the customer and since money you earned it before you
35:13
get it with the products you build and you really own some money you can do whatever you want
35:19
with this money then you have freedom and Independence hold both sides
35:27
not better or worse I think you see my tendency
35:32
review yeah because it puts away I think we try to venture capital way we looked
35:37
for money no one was giving toward us we was no good in presenting but you
35:43
have to make a choice I think it's the worst thing you can do is following both routes in
35:50
parallel because then you don't Focus you don't focus on product you don't focus on on your pitch decks and getting
35:57
some money so you have to take a decision we have to risk not to do everything and this is the most
36:02
important sing what what the founders to do what the CEO have to do you have to take the hard
36:08
decisions you have to say no I'm not doing this I go this route and then you fail
36:14
and you'll stand up and maybe you take the other route but when you try something you have to fully try it not
36:20
just a little bit it's full focus on the one thing really push it
36:26
that it works and if you send fail it's fine you tried it but it's really about trying The One Thing
36:32
when we stay at the first Milestone finding investors or finding the first customers I think they're all they are
36:37
always Market cyclists and starting a company in 2018 I'm not aware of any company who was
36:44
successful in fundraising especially in the Venture Capital space the market was pretty much dried out so I think it must
36:50
not necessarily be a judgment of the quality of the company to not get Venture Capital it's probably just bad
36:55
luck to start in the wrong time it's it reminds me of 20123 which we have now that we also
37:02
have a complete different Market environment today than we had three years ago so three years ago it was
37:08
basically easy to find money there were new Financial models on the market like the Intel SPAC industry and now it's
37:14
completely tried out um but I think it's necessary when the companies to get a good Financial guy on
37:20
board and uh always as you mentioned explorable throughout so is it possible to get venture capital in or is it more
37:26
time to find more customers and sell more to get more Capital into the
37:32
company it's always about growth at the end of the day and having the right skill set in the company's key to success
37:38
my next question when we stay on the Milestone route so the first one was finding the customer what was the second
37:43
milestone not every Milestone between 2008 and 2023
37:49
for me a milestone is to really see that we help the users and customers
37:55
we first will get the product done and send experience what the customers do with it we had
38:03
this PhD student I think her name was Tanya she visited us
38:09
and she told us I have to assemble I have to get it working for my PhD teasers and I'm working three years on
38:15
it and no progress and since you put in our device and one hour later she had
38:20
the data and that means he had tears in her eyes it was really emotional and sadness since the point where we
38:27
really experience did you do something important which really helps the customers also an
38:33
emotional level and so this is still also the energy
38:38
I get a lot of energy from visiting customers and seeing what they really do with our products because so send you
38:45
experience it helps it's not only on a financial sheet where you see some Revenue numbers
38:51
you really experience that someone use your device for a good
38:57
thing and feels good about it and so I have a lot of milestones
39:02
I said was just recently it's a slis one customer approached us
39:07
and told us your dinos device is almost revolutionary cool and then we ask him
39:14
why almost why not revolutionary what is missing
39:20
and so we now do a lot of things to remove the almost yeah but this is what
39:26
drives us to really see that we have the say customers I think it I like your
39:31
customer approach let's stay a little bit with that I think it was Steve Jobs who said never
39:38
ask customers what problems they have because they don't know them so as an
39:43
entrepreneur an entrepreneur must have the ability to observe the customers find out what problems they have and how
39:50
to solve them what's your approach with nanotempa is it like Steve Jobs that you
39:55
go to your customers that you observe them and uh finds out this way which problems they have or are you doing it
40:03
more the traditional marketing way finding a focus group bringing some customers together asking them about
40:09
their problems what do you think is successful on the market in your area first of all I disagree with Steve Jobs
40:18
say it's important to talk with them about their problems but it's really about the problem not talking about a
40:26
technical solution I had one case where it was about we need a cooling
40:33
State Force assembles and it was in this case it was very
40:38
difficult to build a cooling stage and everyone was talking about how to build a cooling stage
40:44
so I was talking with a customer okay what do you really want why cooling stage what do you want to do with a cooling stage
40:50
yeah you know I want to prevent evaporation when I cool it down
40:55
evaporation slows down and send it was about okay via cooling station
41:01
why not having something to close it so it's a thing you really have to find
41:07
the problem and no don't talk about the Technical Solutions about really understanding
41:13
the problem and really get to the same we're understanding with a customer it's
41:19
also I said we make the invisible visible
41:24
and I was this was also learning I talked to a customer and he was talking
41:30
about invisible particles he comes from Pharma I come from the sake for me invisible is
41:38
below 170 nanometers because the diffraction limit for him invisible
41:43
means like he can't see it with his eye okay the same word for the different
41:48
meaning understanding so it's a lot about communication really understand what's the other person means
41:55
and so there's also different between what's the user wants and what's a user
42:00
needs so I fully disagree with Steve Jobs it's about talking with a customer about
42:08
their problems they're all scientists they really know what they do and they really know what
42:14
they want they need and it's very cool to talk with semen who finds his own it's also about trust
42:20
you have to like our communication you have to do a lot of small talking in
42:27
other approaches to reach a certain level of trust so we can talk openly about the problem
42:34
so that another person doesn't feel stupid to tell you about something I mean you
42:39
have a problem you can't solve it so you need a certain trust level to be able to
42:45
talk about this and just comfort it needs a lot of transparency and
42:50
honesty to reach this level and we are working really hard on on having this
42:57
trust of our customers so that they can tell us their problems and we can help them
43:04
yeah maybe it's also difference between business to business customers and I think Apple Steve Jobs is more in the
43:10
business to Consumer area nano-temper is not producing custom
43:16
Solutions if I remember it right you scale your solutions to Industry level
43:21
so you can make thousands and hundreds of thousands of uh machines in your area
43:28
how do you decide that and I'm just curious on your decision criteria when you talk with Scientists I mean they all
43:34
work on important problems uh how do you find out whether it makes sense to scale
43:40
a solution to Industrial scale Auto just drop it how do you how do you find this this
43:47
point where you'll say okay this makes sense because many scientists have a similar problem uh while other problems
43:53
are just personal individual problems which one or two scientists have which doesn't make sense to scale to Industrial Level what is a decision
43:59
criteria in that part so we look at some markets so it's about okay when several users or customers
44:06
have the same need you can call it a market for example the project Market in our
44:12
area you see it's a booming Market it's also we also see so Venture Capital guys are really
44:18
clever so you do say chop very good they have good search teams we also look where money is flowing
44:24
I mean when a lot of money flows in a certain area a market is forming up
44:31
and the other thing is also sounds very simple look what's a competition does
44:37
if a comedy door sells hundreds of devices in a certain area for a certain application
44:45
there is a market and you just have to build a better product you just have to do better
44:51
marketing you just have to do better sales it's very tough
44:57
but from the thinking it's easier it's always easy it's always
45:03
there's a misunderstanding I often also founded Founders they say okay and system says already one company or two
45:10
companies in this market we are not the only ones this is good if you're the only one in the market maybe there is no
45:16
Market there's a lot of people are clever it's normal that you are not the only
45:22
one who identify the market so it's good when other companies are there you can follow them so also
45:28
Commerce are really good in identifying new markets we are not so good in this insists but
45:34
we know the communist or good answers so we see where Sego and then we follow Sam with a better
45:41
product this is why we invest so strongly in r d I said when we see there is a market we
45:48
really try to understand the market talk with the customers identifies a need
45:53
and then we trust builds a better product this is very interesting
46:01
I think it reminds me of Star Trek where to go where nobody else went before
46:07
something like that I think was the initial change I think it's always challenging when a
46:13
company is the first company in the area it's always the question am I the only stupid person here and
46:20
does a market not exist basically or am I really the first one who experienced
46:26
also um the opportunity and went for the opportunity so your approach is rather
46:33
being not the stupid person who is going in the wrong direction but looking at competition looking at other areas
46:39
venture capital for example to find out where is the money flowing and where are the big problems and I would like to
46:45
stay a little bit in that area in 2023 which big problems do you see on
46:50
the market in science what are scientists working on currently what do you see in your research
46:56
as this Pro-Tech area which is very cool where you have a new pharmacological pathway
47:02
where you where you have a molecule maybe a cancer molecule you want to
47:08
destroy and what you do is normally in the former times you just blocked it with a
47:13
molecule it is not always working now they have a new approach you get a molecular touch to it and says
47:20
molecules brings a a kinase from the cell to it
47:25
and you just mark it as trash and send your site kills it and send your molecule move to the next molecule
47:32
cancer molecule and marks it at trash and this is a completely new password this is very exciting and so also
47:40
there's a market it's called intrinsic disorder proteins
47:45
so your new targets and they were considers untrackable before
47:50
because they're we're also not good methods to approach him and see some assets
47:57
our devices look like just as being made for it it works it's like the market
48:03
from our devices whenever someone tries one of these molecules with our devices as protects
48:09
intrinsically disorder proteins so if I had it once because it works and
48:15
yeah it seems to be that we are the only one who are so good in this market so sometimes the market also
48:22
found you but I want to get back it's the feeling you describe sometimes you you think
48:28
yeah am I stupid the solution I have this is so simple so easy why have no one done it or tried it
48:36
before so it's a natural feeling so I know this is feeling very well it happens so often
48:41
in product development it sounds so obvious so simple so easy
48:46
there's so many clever people white doesn't have any one
48:52
done it this is absolutely wrong question if there is a Mark and I need go for it
48:57
don't think about the past the wise no one has done it
49:02
it could be in the past that technology technological Technical Solutions like
49:08
lasers or LEDs or super power CPUs haven't been there and it has been
49:14
impossible in the past and now it's just so easy how how sort of interrupt you how do you
49:20
draw the line how do you draw the line I mean when you look at the statistics it's still 9 out of 10 startups fail so
49:26
9 out of 10 ideas that qualify for becoming a startup don't work when you look at drug Discovery track development
49:32
I think we're talking about 99 out of 100 ideas fail
49:37
and one works when you look at clinical development I think we are at the same ratio of 9 out of 10 failed and one
49:43
works in clinics overall just simplified I think it's always interesting
49:50
to how how do you decide where to draw the line where to stop a project because
49:55
it can still be that I mean when 9 out of 10 fail that the one idea that I'm
50:01
Clinging On whether I think it's the right approach the right direction to go is the one that doesn't work because uh
50:08
I mean this is the reason why nobody else is doing it while it might also really be that I'm the only one who sees
50:16
the right route and the others don't where do you draw a line in your company
50:21
to say okay guys we went this way it's too far we burned a lot of capital
50:27
it doesn't work while people in the company might say no we don't believe that it will work that's just a pour in
50:35
another million what is your decision criteria where do you draw the draw the line in your decision making to say okay
50:40
this project goes forward and we abandon the other project because it doesn't work I don't draw lines and it's it's a
50:48
problem since the stopping it's a problem is the beginning as you mentioned everyone knows that 9 out of
50:54
10 fail 99 of out of 100 fail everyone knows this so the problem is not just
51:00
stopping the problem is the beginning the openness it is custom should we really start this
51:07
it's it will not work or you have a new idea and then
51:13
all the engineers say Okay problem so when you talk about say
51:22
if should we start it if a problem so this is what I call This And when I switch to science fiction mode
51:29
I tried to describe a world versus product exists
51:35
and then to get this great problem solvers in the mode basis thing about how get I how do I get it done but then
51:43
you have to believe that it's possible so I'm going away from should I do it from the if
51:49
to okay to say how how should I do it because a lot of things are just not began
51:55
and this is what it's not stopping it's not the problem the starting is a problem and I mean you
52:02
you start something then you fail and then you have to restart the new things this is tough and this is where you what you have to
52:09
do in management and Leadership you you have to start these things despite you failed because otherwise you
52:17
if you don't fail you do something wrong because if it always works you don't lose the risky thing you do you just do
52:23
the easiest thing it's about the starting and this is what I see
52:30
in Germany in Europe we have a problem is when 9 out of ten fail we see the 9
52:35
out of ten in USA it seems to me say c71 who worked not the nine who failed yeah
52:44
and so this is why you say try some risky things well I'm European after all but there's
52:49
also I mean um some people believed in flying that's why we have the aviation industry and
52:55
some people still believe that the Earth is flat which is uh Ultra stupid
53:01
um you mentioned in one of your posts that you grew up
53:07
on the countryside and help us at your post right on
53:13
LinkedIn that your teacher stored your parents that you don't qualify for uh
53:19
higher education is that really is it related I think you here have a strong
53:25
franconian dialect yeah so
53:32
and some teachers consider them or sister like they're stupid because I can't yeah if you can't speak like an
53:38
educated person they think you are not an educated person you're not so clever and since I told my parents this guy is
53:46
not level enough for the gymnasium really suffice great again but just safe very
53:54
good grades and then went to the gymnasium because it was an obvious
54:02
I think my parents say also had an IQ test for me so it wasn't based the
54:09
decision wasn't based on on data and the funny thing is this teacher who told my parents I'm not
54:15
clever enough had to give me the book price of the Sherman Society of physics was the best Abbott doing for six this
54:21
was quite he can't he couldn't remember it it was just
54:27
I don't know how this could happen yeah because otherwise not a temple would not exist
54:33
yeah I mean it's I experienced pretty much the same here in Austria I'm also from a small village for Austrian so
54:39
it's my grandparents had their Farm in a small village with I think 200
54:45
inhabitants my parents lived in a small city with a little bit above 10 000 and
54:51
teachers had power roads in society so they charged this guy is
54:57
should go down this route and that girl is qualifying for that job and parents
55:02
believe that why did you break out of this pattern what made you break out uh and say okay
55:08
I mean I don't care what teachers say I just go my own my own way what what was your decision criteria back then
55:14
I care I cared what what's he say so I care a lot about what people say but I
55:20
also have a strong will I would say I take a lot of things serious but then it was
55:27
yeah why because I could I would say it was so it felt obvious that this is the right
55:33
rule because I was interested in learning more or does this Village it was just I think it was eating books or the
55:40
knowledge I could get I was just a sucking it up I want I wanted to learn
55:47
and I want to to get to know more from the world especially I'm very much interested in people so
55:54
people excite me I like people people like me and I wanted to learn
56:00
more so it was yeah I had to do it was away I just
56:07
couldn't stay in a small world I have to broaden my my borders this is
56:14
what I still do I want to to learn more I want to broaden my borders I I often or always
56:22
fight with myself to come overcome my ego to get out of my comfort zone to learn
56:27
new things for me it's always a fight I'm always afraid of new things it may look like I'm doing a lot of new
56:34
things but I'm afraid of them it's really for me a fight with a new some
56:40
are very emotional maybe sometimes aggressive thing I have I really have to fight with new things
56:47
so I think I sometimes pissed off people because when they tell me something new
56:53
I had a defense reaction now I have this under control but I'm somewhat afraid of
56:58
the new but also excited and then I I fight with it in my mind and send curiosity always wins but I'm
57:06
very I have a lot of fears and afraid of new things but some of my curiosity is stronger how
57:13
do you fight through this wall I think I read a book if I think it was the art of uh the war of arts and the author
57:20
described that all artists have basically this tendency to have to fight
57:26
for the art to get going uh what's your secrets to get going and not to just get
57:32
stuck into something else even procrastination for example is uh in my opinion um
57:37
the the strongest way to not pursue the own goals so maybe it's what you
57:42
describe is basically what happens also in my life I see ago I want to go in the direction and then I feel something is
57:48
holding me back and it's so tempting to then pull out the smartphone um do a little bit of watching Netflix
57:55
or gaming or something else but not pursuing at all how do you how do you
58:00
get yourself motivated initially to take the first steps towards the direction of
58:05
your goal but rather than doing what 97 of society is doing uh playing games
58:10
doing nothing I have a lot of people helping me also
58:16
my girlfriend is pushing me forward Stefan is pushing me forward a lot of people in the company and my network are
58:22
pushing me forward so there's also something I realize that it is a lot a
58:27
lot is about collaborations mentorship coaching having people supporting you yeah and say help me when I see when I'm
58:34
completely let's say not open door do a thing and I see my girlfriend is very open to it it helps me to go sir it's
58:42
not always easy for both of us but it really helps me and so is it's also with
58:48
Stefan we have completely different personalities so sometimes I'm defended to something
58:53
and Stefan really likes this and this helps me to get there alone
59:01
I'm not sure if I would achieve this alone I don't think so it's really about I have to talk with
59:07
people about it and people help me to overcome my hurdles it's a good thing you're not
59:13
alone yeah there are people and people's like people like to help you
59:19
yeah it's a I think it's a good point to have a team that helps overcoming resistance I would call it that way it's
59:25
one of the most important things and I think also what you mentioned as an entrepreneur it's important to like people it's really difficult to build
59:32
the people's business without having a passion for for people around you
59:37
when we go a little bit back to your upbringing what impact did your
59:43
experience in your village have on your entrepreneurship spirit
59:51
so experience so my my parents my father and my mother my father worked as an
59:57
electrician my master in kindergarten in my grand bar as a farmer
1:00:02
and my parents were complaining about their jobs and their bosses and my grandfather was not he had his
1:00:11
own business I mean as a farmer you're very much influenced by by vesser
1:00:17
and if you think about it you you have in your whole lifetime you have only 50
1:00:24
or 40 opportunities to get the perfect say read out of whatever's the best it's
1:00:32
a perfect Harvest and you Sylvester is as it is it can be bad or good
1:00:37
but it doesn't help you to complain about service because you can't influence a vessel and this was my
1:00:45
learning what I also said was the Silicon Valley Bank I can't influence what is happening here
1:00:52
as I can't influence sevisor so if there is bad vesser
1:00:58
I still try to get the best possible Harvest and so if there is a bad Finance
1:01:03
situation because of of a bank Rises I can't influence us but I still try to
1:01:09
get the best out of the situation and this is what I what I learned learns there if there is
1:01:16
something I mean I can't complain I can't complain about people because I mean I'm the
1:01:22
entrepreneur I can't blame anyone I can't blame Sylvester I can't blame the Silicon
1:01:28
Valley Bank I can only play me so I I have to focus on the things I can
1:01:33
do and it's not about complaining we have to change the situation so don't waste
1:01:39
your time in complaining put your time into improving sound advice for Vienna I guess so it's
1:01:46
a bit in which decade did you grow up it's basically the 80s or was it 80s 90s
1:01:53
born in 1979 so grew up in the 80s and 90s I also be at the same age group
1:01:58
basically it was pre-internet times and then you decided to study Physics and
1:02:05
start a biophysics company when I think back to my experience on the countryside I think physics and
1:02:13
Mathematics was not on top of the list it was also more a rural rural area now I have it
1:02:20
um with more farmers how did you find your passion for physics
1:02:25
and I had good teachers in physics so as a child I remember I was most interested
1:02:30
in biology but in in school I had bad teachers in chemistry and biology so I somehow hated
1:02:37
it but now I'm doing it it's very good and a very good teachers in mathematics and physics and had a talent for it and
1:02:44
then when it comes to studies I didn't start with physics so in I finished
1:02:50
school in 1999 and it's a civil civil service
1:02:55
and sensor versus it boom I was in Germany MP3 format was discovered by Mr
1:03:01
brandenburger and he he joined Irma now a small town
1:03:06
University as Professor so I went to England now to start with a engineering informatics because you know from a
1:03:13
village business six what can you do become teacher I had no idea what to do with physics
1:03:19
later on maybe astronaut which is cool yeah that's true or science but serious
1:03:25
maybe also find no job at least in my regions there was no job for infosix so I started with
1:03:32
informatics in instance engineering informatics course you also listen to physics and
1:03:38
then I had my first Physics course and then I said okay no it's not informatics
1:03:44
it's for six and then I changed to physics so I tried I failed I changed
1:03:50
you know I'm doing business and biochemistry and not physics
1:03:58
and what what formed your decision I mean basically on
1:04:04
the countryside finishing school was enough for most people and getting a University degree was for
1:04:11
the majority of the society back in the 80s just out of scope it was just okay you need a few doctors who treat
1:04:19
patients so in that sense and a few lawyers and that's it basically the
1:04:25
majority I think went down the safe shop route and you decided to go for a PhD
1:04:30
studies what what formed your decision I think my father my parents supported me
1:04:36
and also it was this curiosity I wanted to learn more
1:04:42
to also to go to a new city and also also I realized that there was
1:04:48
a lot of knowledge out there and big science fiction fan I think you mentioned this Star Trek yeah and as we
1:04:55
are now on TV some pictures there's one thing I want to do engage
1:05:03
yeah so I had my parents supporting me strongly do you have still a passion for
1:05:09
space I mean I think the 80s it was Star Trek it was Star Wars uh I think many people our generation
1:05:17
started dreaming about space space exploration Elon Musk went down this route so he's still having quick SpaceX
1:05:23
has the vision to build a colony on Mars what's with your company is there any uh
1:05:29
Visionary Space Project going on and also like space very much and we indeed
1:05:34
have a project with International Space Station yeah so I think it's now the launches planned
1:05:40
now for 2025 we will send experiments to the International Space Station it's a
1:05:45
formulation topic formulation of proteins how to stabilize them so I'm very excited about this project
1:05:52
you started already in 2014. so long time project and say launch has
1:05:59
been postponed for several times now but it's now planned I think May 2025
1:06:04
and then we will send and experiment with another space station so rocket science cool why space why do you need
1:06:12
space for your work and special you have nearly no gravity and you have we do a lot of this
1:06:18
temperature and uh and all our samples are in liquid so an antibody a truck like had septino
1:06:27
trusted zoom up has to be stable in liquid and so you have a lot of temperature
1:06:32
influences in temperature means you have some convection
1:06:37
and some convection means if we eat something up it becomes lighter and then sudden it moves upwards insists
1:06:44
into it induces flows which makes something loses antibodies and why do it move upwards it's the warm
1:06:52
thing is lighter but it only is lighter because because there is gravity
1:06:57
and to really understand what what temperature alone does to it without
1:07:03
flows you have to switch off gravity what you can't do on Earth but on
1:07:09
International Space Station if microgravity so nearly no influence of gravity so we can study accessibility
1:07:15
so serviceability of antibodies without the influence of
1:07:21
gravity without thermal convective flows and since this whole problem becomes
1:07:26
simpler and we hope to learn something from this how how can you imagine that I mean it's quite it's really exciting to
1:07:33
imagine that uh company that films basically is also
1:07:38
your post with uh with the Oscar on uh on your LinkedIn profile where you
1:07:43
posted it you're the first person who touched the Oscar uh here on the in the podcast studio uh who is going to space
1:07:50
on top of that how can I imagine that is it do you just call it London's a needs peemy up
1:07:58
Scotty when we stay in the Star Trek picture how do you organize such a space project is it is it tricky to get into
1:08:04
that program or is it just like uh calling a number and say I want to
1:08:10
experiment shoot me up when I do it as they approached us so scientists approach us it could be interesting for
1:08:16
us to do this because it's for science it's very interesting
1:08:21
to switch off gravity in the studies of problems here so they approached us if it's also
1:08:26
interesting for us and it's now running for more than nine years
1:08:32
and it's not clear if you can make money with it so I think
1:08:40
this is why I like the freedom Independence we have if I'm Venture Capital driven company I have to focus
1:08:46
on getting money yeah and I won't I think I think I wouldn't have done it
1:08:51
but it was just and there was an opportunity to do rocket science and I'm a science fiction fan I love
1:08:58
space and then scientists approached us and
1:09:04
then we took the opportunity because it's cool it's very exciting and this is why I
1:09:09
like it supposed to have this freedom and Independence of a bootstrapped and found on company we can only I don't
1:09:16
care if I earn money with this I do it because I can I do it because
1:09:21
it's interesting and there may come something out of it I don't know it's
1:09:26
very risky but maybe it's a really cool thing and at least a lot of fun I mean in life it's a lot about fun we
1:09:34
trust don't live to earn money or whatever it's also about entertainment and fun and this is a super exciting
1:09:41
project so we do it because we can you mentioned a couple of times that you
1:09:47
like science fiction books yeah and I'm curious which was the most influential
1:09:53
science fiction book on your work I think it's a it's called Lucky Star
1:10:00
Space Ranger from Isaac ashimov there is a a guy it's a detective stories
1:10:08
with with a guy who studied physics in a citizen science Council having the
1:10:15
government due to solve difficult problems and this was somehow a hero for
1:10:21
me who solved let's say science fiction problems with
1:10:26
with science so he started for six he was a cool guy a hero and so somehow
1:10:32
resonated with me in my teenage years and I like the science fiction
1:10:38
mode where they build up a new universe they set up rules not real rules but rules and stick to
1:10:45
the rules so they built a setting and stick to it in Syria and you complete a
1:10:50
new world evolves and this helps me to get out of
1:10:55
this operational mode and to open up my brain for new things and new new ways of thinking yes was a
1:11:04
great writer yeah yeah I love his books uh you mentioned bootstrapping
1:11:10
when I've when I connect the dots to the
1:11:15
acceleration decoration programs in my opinion it's all about fundraising and very often I get the feeling then I
1:11:23
talk to entrepreneurs who were part of these programs which are pretty much good
1:11:29
um that they feel a little bit insecure when they get a lot of rejections from disease because not every business idea
1:11:35
qualifies to become a VC case it's just basic basic VC science let's call it
1:11:40
that way that they invest in certain kinds of projects that guarantee
1:11:45
basically a 10x to 100x return and the majority of the startups ideas are not
1:11:52
really qualified to have such a perspective um many of the scientists or
1:11:58
entrepreneurs give up then and say okay when they don't get funding I don't continue on that route
1:12:05
you said you started a company with bootstrapping did you feel like a second thing you wrote in your post uh we were
1:12:12
a second hand entrepreneurs I think was it a related way that you felt that we
1:12:17
see route is superior to bootstrapping so I think I there was a
1:12:26
woman from it from Handel's blood who asked me in a posting do you feel second class and I trust
1:12:32
picked it up a second class was it yeah it was second us to do this bootstrapped companies feel like second cars class
1:12:39
because I complained about you know normally don't complain a
1:12:44
little bit complaining to find them I complained about said they only talk about Venture Capital because
1:12:50
most important is that Founders knows that they have options if you only get
1:12:57
told there's only the Venture Capital races is wrong we have also the other way it's not about getting Venture
1:13:04
Capital it's about getting money you can also get some money from the customer you can invest in a financial guy
1:13:11
getting venture capital or you invest in sales getting the money from the customer and then it's all about it not
1:13:18
talking about technology is really talking about products it's a technology made for a market fit
1:13:25
it's a product it was with a certain need and it's about selling this product I
1:13:30
mean you have to get you have to force send money to come to you and say this is a good way of course I mean if you
1:13:37
are the text starter when you come from University you have the tendency to go on to move on with this development this
1:13:44
is your comfort zone you can develop you know also know how to write grants so in
1:13:49
science you write grants you get money it's like writing a Quran for Venture Capital to get money
1:13:55
you're always doing the same but it's not about development it's not
1:14:01
about hiring the next developer you have to do sales and this is what we did the
1:14:07
right way from the beginning we focused on sales and we still focus on sales
1:14:13
because besides we get the money we are profitable and then we fully own some money and can invest it
1:14:20
so this is my advice on on startups sell
1:14:27
s a device sells a product before you have it because if the customer
1:14:34
gives you money for it you know that it's worse to develop it and if you build up trust they will give
1:14:40
user money before I mean it's a slow way of growth but it's a steady Way Forward
1:14:46
and you have the freedom and you can always bring inventory Capital this is
1:14:51
always possible but if you have it once venture capital in
1:14:58
I don't have any idea how to get it out without more venture capital or an IPO send your enters one-way thing with
1:15:06
bootstrapping you have the freedom and always the other option
1:15:12
I couldn't agree more I think uh selling is also important for Venture Capital finance companies to always have an eye
1:15:19
on the market and find out what potential customers need and how well that really works I think theranos is a
1:15:26
is a good example how well selling works on the market even when you don't have a product
1:15:31
um it was I think it was in the podcast with Sebastian malappi he wrote the book The Power law which is basically I call
1:15:38
it a brief history of venture capital and I think he coins the term premature truth so it's just important to be
1:15:45
honest and open about the development situation and not treated like this awareness team to just say we have what
1:15:54
we don't have then I think put tripping bugs really really well and there are always customers on the market who are happy to be the first ones yeah but when
1:16:01
you don't find a customer when you're on the market it's the same with fundraising when a company is on the
1:16:07
delivery really diligently on the market for more than one year and there is no not one investor showing up and not one
1:16:13
customer basically it might also be the the idea is wrong I think we I mean we found it's a
1:16:20
company in 2008 but the whole journey began in 2006 and I think we had no
1:16:26
customer for three years there was nothing [Music]
1:16:32
nicer customer no Venture Capital Money what kept you going we never thought about failing yeah it's
1:16:39
a very tough situation maybe bankrupt the next day but failure was not in our mind we we had to believe that we have a
1:16:46
powerful technology in our hands and if it fails it's because us and said we don't do it the
1:16:53
right way said we don't try hard enough so
1:16:58
this failure was not in our mind we were completely convinced cerebral work and
1:17:04
this is I think what finally convince the first customer this was also also founder
1:17:10
base company and the founder knew our situation and so we had a we had a connection and it
1:17:17
was I I think they've seen said we fully believe in what we do
1:17:24
this is also when I'm a business Angel and look at teams I look at them if they believe if the founders
1:17:30
don't believe in the idea who else should we have to believe if I
1:17:37
don't believe in your own idea I mean sleep at night over it but maybe you should your sense should stop it we
1:17:44
have a question from the audience you see uh which I think is quite interesting and funny so let's get it in
1:17:49
the conversation when are the medicines available for every person that every disease is treatable what's your what's
1:17:57
your guess on that hopefully before it's too late for me so my master had cancer and was saved by
1:18:04
trusted someone had said team so am I afraid of getting cancer so my family is a certain history of cancer cases
1:18:12
and so I'm also afraid of getting cancer and so this is a thing also one reason
1:18:18
why I founded Nano timber because the so-called what can I what can I do to
1:18:23
improve the situation with cancer I don't want to be a victim of the Fate and one thing I can do
1:18:30
it can develop a drug but then it's one drug against one one cancer thing
1:18:36
but where have do I have the biggest Leverage and it was about tools for the
1:18:41
scientists so there are a lot of clever scientists thousands ten thousands of them if they have better tools
1:18:49
they can develop better drugs faster so this was
1:18:54
we have around 20 000 users now and if you're trusting about it if we improve the usability
1:19:01
of our device in a ways that we save the to sign this one hour per week we have
1:19:07
50 hours a 50 weeks one hour per week times 20 000
1:19:13
scientists is one million hours and there's a huge leverage one million hours more time doing to discover new
1:19:20
cancer drugs so as I said prediction about the future
1:19:25
especially tough but I strongly believe that every disease
1:19:31
is treatable and I hope so people get there and that everyone
1:19:37
has access to it it's very important that people have to access those as drugs and
1:19:43
so that we get this drugs quicker so every month's Council I mean every year
1:19:49
you have 18 million new cancer cases every every years is like the population of the Netherlands 18 18 million it's
1:19:57
more than one million new cases every month yeah so every month when we help a company to
1:20:03
release a cancer drug one month earlier you can save a lot of lives and if you are ill
1:20:10
and you really have the cancer every every month is every day is very important for you this is also why we
1:20:16
push so hard to be quick with our Solutions on the market because it makes a difference so I I don't know when this will be
1:20:24
but I push really hard so it will be sooner I think with with HIV HIV when I
1:20:30
remembered right was a deadly virus back in the 80s with a very very
1:20:37
short life expectancy after infection now it looks more like but correct me if
1:20:42
I'm wrong you're the expert here not me I'm from the final side um now it's like a manageable disease
1:20:50
and they heard from some scientists that people when they get the proper treatment can basically live a normal
1:20:55
life and don't infect anybody anymore which means they can also have kids and it's it happened at 80s 90s 2000s
1:21:03
2010 it's four decades uh do you see a similar development for cancer possible
1:21:08
I mean cancer is still a friend of mine died two years ago from cancer do you see that's possible also for
1:21:15
cancer to come to the same state like in HIV that it's a manageable disease and
1:21:21
that basically people can normalize can live normal lives yeah I think in leukemias you also had a YouTube
1:21:27
improvement over the last decades so some cancer cases are just not no
1:21:33
problem more but it's not only about drugs so we develop tools for for scientists that
1:21:39
develop drugs it's it's also about preventing the drug to happen I mean if
1:21:44
you look at cancer for men smoking alone is responsible for more cancer
1:21:51
cases and all see other things together can you repeat that because I still know people who say uh smoking is not if you
1:21:57
if you're a man and you smoke stop it if you want to prevent yourself to get
1:22:02
cancer stop smoking and women for women's it's also the case by the women's not so predominant in the
1:22:09
statistics there was a recent statistic in last year and Civil War said for the risk factors for cancer for men
1:22:15
the risk smoking impulses is more than all the other risk factors together
1:22:22
for women the risk is is it at all smaller because I think
1:22:28
they take more care of their of their health but also when smoking was not there was
1:22:33
also the biggest risk but not so dominant as a man but I'm stop smoking
1:22:38
prevention is the best thing and the funny thing is
1:22:43
our Munich headquarter is since the former Philip Morris fabrication oh really they produced
1:22:50
cigarettes in the fabrication and now we are in Syria to fight cancer
1:22:59
this is this is fate somehow funny life um
1:23:07
you said one million hours so basically you help saving time and
1:23:15
resources um the one question that I had in my mind when you mentioned that was I know
1:23:21
how much money I need to develop a new therapy so basically currently it's about three to four billion dollars to
1:23:28
develop something from the lab up to the market roughly statistics and also
1:23:33
checks canal in a previous podcast confirmed that he's doing a great research in the efficiency and
1:23:40
productivity of track development processes but then I thought I don't know the hours scientists have
1:23:48
to work to bring one track to the market just out of curiosity did you ever count the hours that uh scientists invest time
1:23:58
to develop a new truck no because the teams are different sizes is tough but what we know is we can
1:24:05
speed up so we had the case of a Pharma company with one of his new it was in the protag
1:24:11
OR IDP area where they struggle to get an essay in early drug Discovery is a struggle to get an essay working suspend
1:24:18
I think three months on it and got to know us they send us the samples we didn't know much about the
1:24:24
samples and we got the essay working the next day so we spent two days of work so
1:24:30
they they tried for three months and with our tools it was just two days cool
1:24:36
and now if you save several months I mean not it's good for the patient but
1:24:42
also if a blockbuster drug it's more than one billion dollar a year every month is around 100 million
1:24:49
dollar so if you are three months earlier on the market
1:24:55
it's 300 million euros our devices
1:25:00
processing in this case the device is 400 000 Euros invest 400 000 Euros
1:25:08
to get 300 million more easy calculation or yeah quite simple quite simple makes
1:25:14
sense makes sense logically um I mean you can do that now so when we switch a little bit away from the
1:25:21
science behind the Technologies and going more towards leadership Leadership Lessons don't I mean building a company with more than
1:25:27
200 employees is not easy and coming out of the lab I think uh
1:25:32
writing your PhD thesis getting the first customer is one important Milestone but then you have all the way
1:25:39
down to scale a company to a multinational business with more than 200 employees and what I see on LinkedIn
1:25:45
you're still hiring very very a lot of people it's called a lot of
1:25:50
people what are the three most important leadership lessons that you learned in
1:25:56
the last years when as you started Nano Temple the most important thing is walk the
1:26:03
talk you really have to live what you're speaking about you you have a culture
1:26:08
you have values and you have to lift them you can't
1:26:13
I mean when you say you treat everyone equally and your CEO and founder is not about
1:26:18
drinking champagne with your executive team and only with them it's also having a pier with everyone
1:26:25
with a beer with everyone in your production you have to treat everyone equally and it's your personality I mean
1:26:34
you can play a role for a certain time but over years it's
1:26:39
your personality you have to really have to live it and you have to start with yourself so
1:26:46
it's about in the beginning I did a lot of times wrong I complained about how others
1:26:52
behave and try to change them but you can't change others you can only
1:26:57
change your own attitude and your own behavior so as soon as I realized it
1:27:03
I got more coaches and also mentors and worked on myself and also got feedback
1:27:10
to improve things I did wrong and this is start with yourself
1:27:17
founder CEO or wherever you are you have to start with yourself
1:27:25
the first left in the second and third lesson I think the original second is start with yourself yeah yeah I always
1:27:31
experience that my own ego was my biggest hurdle to overcome when you hire better people you see
1:27:38
I could say to you it's tough to to see it or to let them go to trust them
1:27:43
also as a Founder you have been two people we were doing everything
1:27:49
and it's a Founder you grow if you give away things you give away things the responsibilities in another person
1:27:56
does it another way you do it your way another person does this a different way
1:28:03
and this is often tough to accept when we when we look inside your decision making processes
1:28:11
uh you mentioned this couple of times complaining so when I go
1:28:16
through the process step by step to work from realizing that there is a problem so that's the
1:28:23
solution and telling a person might be a solution threat solution what role does complaining play in that
1:28:30
decision I think just let me give a little bit more information about it
1:28:35
um when I look inside of me when I feel that something is wrong um I mean at the deal process would be
1:28:42
to the CR there is a problem here is the solution let's connect the dots and it's an easy and emotional
1:28:48
process a logical process unfortunately in my world it's not so it starts with
1:28:54
with this cat feeding it something is wrong then comes a phase of negativity
1:28:59
of complaining uh it might be internal it might be external but in my opinion it's necessary to come to the point that
1:29:05
they realize what the problem is that the fact that they can Define the problem so initially I don't have
1:29:11
clarity about the problem it's just an emotion and after just realized what the
1:29:16
problem is and they can Define it and they can name it then they can start working on the solution in your world how important is
1:29:24
complaining the complaint is one thing it's often you complain despite there is no
1:29:31
problem because it's a personal emotional thing for you there is no problem you just complain about the situation but in an
1:29:38
objective way there is no problem it's just a personal because something pissed you off someone pissed you off it's just
1:29:45
a personal thing and since you have to to stop to be honest to users just
1:29:51
complaining is about you and it's also saying negativity to
1:29:56
complain about politics also things you can't change for me this is an
1:30:01
excuse you know to work on the things you can change or you say oh it's so
1:30:07
tough to change but you can change you can help another person this has already changed a lot if
1:30:13
every person helps another person if everyone does it
1:30:20
you can achieve a lot and it's must I don't like this complaining it sets a wrong attitude
1:30:28
and then from the beginning if you start with with this attitude a lot of things goes wrong because you always have to
1:30:35
fight against and for misses mostly an excuse It's about us as did it wrong
1:30:41
says because I can't perform and this is an excuse
1:30:46
not always but often let's stay a little bit on the emotional side of leadership
1:30:51
how important are emotions in leadership in your opinion leadership it's all about emotions people follow you and we leadership it's
1:30:59
not about you it's about your people you're only a leader if someone follows
1:31:04
you and say follow you because you believe in you and the trust and you it's only
1:31:09
emotions it's personality it's emotions you have to talk with them in a very
1:31:15
emotional way because it's not about you it's about Sam a leader is defined by the followers
1:31:21
only by the followers only if you know the followers you can Define the leader
1:31:26
a leader alone is nothing it's just a person it's always a follower who are
1:31:32
important and so it's emotions how do you how do you treat employees
1:31:39
what's your what's your what's your learning in leadership what is the right way to approach employees
1:31:46
the thing you often read about eye level but if you talk about eye
1:31:51
levels the same eye level is already wrong
1:31:57
I think it would say normal I like people just normal
1:32:03
I I treat everyone equally at least I try
1:32:09
and this is the approach if I smile at one normal says person smiles back so
1:32:14
it's trust reading people know you always meet twice
1:32:19
Overstreet people nice and say always treat you the same way
1:32:26
when we talk about treating people in a nice and kind way if these days when you
1:32:31
read leadership books they are often about being kind and being nice to everybody then you look into the Sports World and
1:32:38
realize that athletes and top performing athletes very often seek people that
1:32:43
push them forward and the demand from them that they don't be nice so that
1:32:48
they just shouted them and scream at them to just get the best out of them where do you see in leadership in in
1:32:56
your world the balance between being kind and nice and also sometimes being unfriendly and pushy to move people
1:33:02
forward for their own benefit is their must be a balance or is it really either
1:33:07
or in your opinion I would say it's to be honest and transparent someone does something wrong
1:33:15
tells this person is wrong don't tell you a stupid or whatever just say it's wrong it's honesty
1:33:23
in transparency and it's all built on on trust the other things are just some mentality
1:33:31
things it's just like say how it is it's also learned in my from my Village times
1:33:37
with Craftsmen and farmers you take these things SAR and you
1:33:43
I think say area where I'm from Franconia we are known to be very direct and this is very efficient you don't
1:33:49
talk around you say what it is you try to get a image of the reality
1:33:55
and describes a reality and I think it's honesty when you say someone you did this wrong this person
1:34:02
can can learn you can you can say it a nice way or in a not so nice we're pushy way
1:34:09
but this is the second layer first you have to identify as reality it names a
1:34:15
reality and the rest is then communication and Communications also
1:34:21
it's bilateral I mean it's not a general thing you have to understand you have to
1:34:27
know the other person and then you can communicate it in a way but you think
1:34:32
it's best for the other person because there is information how you receive information is not about
1:34:39
how I talk is is about how you understand it so you have to give it to
1:34:44
you in a way I think you you can understand it and this can be a pushy some people like
1:34:51
the pushy way somebody who likes a very nice way so it's up to me as a leader or
1:34:56
manager to understand the best way of communication versus certain person
1:35:02
is it easy no it's very hard because you feel awesome and it's
1:35:07
I mean honesty and transparency in this trust help so I mean I often treat
1:35:12
people who are wrong and then you have to have the guts the ghost has the next day and say sorry if you can do this you
1:35:18
can solve a lot of problems and say we will very much appreciate it
1:35:23
if you say I'm sorry I treated you wrong this helps a lot if you do a mistake
1:35:31
be honest and stay to this mistake this helps and suspenserve a lot of trust
1:35:37
because it says you're open you're transparent and so this is what really people
1:35:43
appreciate if you're honest to them however tough it is you tell them they
1:35:49
will appreciate the honesty yeah I think especially in the the knowledge world that we have these days
1:35:56
it's important to keep people motivated and if leaders
1:36:01
fail in that I think they block a lot of energy and
1:36:06
Innovation cannot move forward when people feel blocked how do you see it
1:36:12
yeah when people have fear it can block innovation
1:36:18
some say it could also be a driver it's only it also depends on the person but fear
1:36:24
you should be you shouldn't be afraid of something you feel safe and I think it's also about feeling
1:36:31
trusted if you see someone believes in you you feel very confident to try the risky
1:36:37
things and there's also a way you have to control let's say say gossip sometimes people
1:36:43
are afraid because in the past something happened and since someone was fired and then people are afraid
1:36:50
to do the same thing but there's also a lot of assumption this is why it's
1:36:56
important to always actively communicate how you think and how you would react in such a situation
1:37:02
also when a new employee starts you tell them well I tell them I'm getting angry very quickly
1:37:09
and you will you will see it what's the next day I've it's it's over I'm fine again do you get angry very
1:37:15
quickly yeah I do really yeah and how do you manage that
1:37:22
I often have no stress ball I mean I need movement to control I think it's
1:37:28
really really helped about it I mean I read a lot from leaders that
1:37:35
they got into breathing exercises meditation have you ever explored that
1:37:41
route now for me it's running doing sports going outside walking around
1:37:48
I have to go into movement let's go to find your own some rituals what happens
1:37:55
then when you walk and it says to be outside so it frees my
1:38:00
mind I'm somehow stuck in a in a black tunnel with angry emotions and when I
1:38:08
when I changed my environment it happened to get out of this you know I can call it rabbit hole so we have to
1:38:14
change locations for it does it make a difference for you whether you walk alongside the easel in
1:38:21
other Outdoors nature compared to having a walk in the city
1:38:29
important is that it's outside can be City can be a forest can be a
1:38:34
river it can be a beach but it has to be outside not inside or the Oktoberfest
1:38:40
uh sometimes it's too much alcohol it could also go the wrong direction this
1:38:45
is true this is true let's stay a little bit with managing emotions and Innovation collaboration and success
1:38:53
when I was a student and I got my degree in economics business management
1:38:58
I had always this picture in mind that small companies are very Innovative and there were a lot of studies on the
1:39:04
market back then in the 90s already small companies are Innovative then defines the markets and then they have
1:39:10
the problem that to do the same thing over and over and over and over again and this is what takes the Innovation
1:39:18
out of the company because if when you want to serve millions of customers you need to do the same thing to deliver the
1:39:23
same product to the same customer group all the time and this also has the risk
1:39:29
that the company at a later point in time fails because customers move on competition arises and the company
1:39:35
already has lost the ability to be Innovative and successful so one part is
1:39:40
the leadership so to keep people motivated and moving forward and not being angry all the time and not evoke
1:39:46
emotions of fear the other side is structural I always thought this is the normal cycle you have a small company it
1:39:53
grows it fails it goes extinct and the next company comes and then there are these outlier companies on the market
1:39:59
like apple Microsoft Tesla for example and they seem to be Innovative over
1:40:06
decades what's your experience as a leader of an innovation company how can you maintain
1:40:14
the spirit of innovation while growing your company
1:40:20
this is a tough one I'm also not sure if Microsoft and Google and so could they explain because they're still quite
1:40:25
quite young maybe it's the old mark this German Mark was more than 150 years old
1:40:32
so you survive for a very long time or there's a hotel in Japan with more than which is more than 750
1:40:39
years 750 very old maybe sees also wants and I'm not sure if if Innovation really
1:40:47
helps you against Instinct Extinction it's just what we communicate that
1:40:53
Innovation is so I think it's a good customer or product Market fit with the customer you can
1:40:59
also innovate too quickly and it's so much for the market yeah it's tough to see I have no good
1:41:05
answer for it did you ever have a situation in your company where you felt you innovate too quickly for the market
1:41:11
the customers can't follow and we innovated too quickly for our own organization so we were launching
1:41:18
products new products so quickly is that we could scope up with the training of our sales team also with ramping up
1:41:25
the production so it was too many two new things in a too short time this can
1:41:32
happen I don't want to let you out of this room before we talk about one
1:41:37
question micromanagement so your success was basically focusing on sales very
1:41:43
early in your company which in my opinion qualifies you as the best salesperson in an organization
1:41:50
um but if you want to grow a company you need more sales people yeah uh and you said before that you want to
1:41:57
avoid micromanagement when you hire salespeople and you set up all the
1:42:03
structures you set up all the sales scripts uh you brought the first customers in
1:42:08
how can how do you manage yourself to stay away from macro management and
1:42:14
letting people make their own mistakes their own experiences how do you manage
1:42:19
that a single we hired people who tell us to stop micromanagement you always have the
1:42:27
tendency you have to try to have some influence or go into separations again because we have some pattern running and
1:42:33
you also need people actively stopping you so
1:42:39
maybe one thing is also to hire people who are allergic to micromanagement and tell you or leave it's a good science
1:42:45
and you said you did too much some people also like it maybe
1:42:52
but I think often you have to be stopped actively someone telling you hey you're too you're doing too many
1:42:59
things of micro management because often you start from your technical
1:43:05
experience you found it's a company you understand technology so your answer's leadership position
1:43:11
because you are an expert in technology then you hire more people then you have to manage and lead the people
1:43:18
which means you have less time for the technology but the technology was a thing which give you which gave you
1:43:25
power which which make you to feel secure but you're losing this all your
1:43:31
people in the team have more time with a technology so they're getting better than you
1:43:38
and if all your strengths is based on knowledge about the technology he wasn't afraid of the others
1:43:45
because they're not much better experts than you are because you'll spend most of your time in managing them
1:43:50
and out of this fear some people have the tendency
1:43:55
to control to gain power Again by micromanaging by controlling the people
1:44:02
in a sync this micromanagement is can be a symptom or sign for fear
1:44:09
I think what's also has me is I'm lazy I'm I'm too lazy to
1:44:14
to get all the details I'm just when I see it's the right direction
1:44:19
so I'm quite happy and I may be too lazy to go into the details I think this
1:44:26
helped me yeah I think it's important to to make to help the company thrive on the market
1:44:32
uh to let people just work to the work and not fall into the Trap of uh
1:44:39
sometimes employees come back and try to I would say delegate it back to the
1:44:44
leadership to get the work done it's also I think important to just really leave the task at the employee
1:44:52
until it's finished which then gives you the room to explore new routes outside
1:44:57
the company also read on your LinkedIn profile that you are a business Angel tell me more about it what is your life
1:45:04
as a presidential we as Nano demo we had a business Angel and we had a very very good experience
1:45:10
with Sim so we also bought back his shares to be completely independent but
1:45:15
the experience was so good we learned so much from him and he he was a guy in the beginning who
1:45:21
really believed in us and this is really we had a lot of Struggle No One believed in us and since this guy also a
1:45:29
non-entreneur in Munich from real estate business completely different business he believed in US
1:45:35
very strong and great personality and this really pushed us forward in the tough times they have such a person
1:45:42
believing in US and since now I want to give this also back to Founders because experience was
1:45:48
so great so for me business interest is not only
1:45:53
investing money I really have attitude also helps them to be fair some kind of
1:45:59
mentor and not going in testing here you have to do it this way
1:46:06
I can I can help them but they have to approach me what's the most important lesson that
1:46:13
you learned as a business angel I just started one and a half year ago I I think it's
1:46:21
more work than I expected and I'm I think most important lesson is
1:46:27
I'm I think I'm learning more than the founders
1:46:33
because there's no point of view gives me a lot of new insights what's
1:46:38
your investment criteria what are you looking for in Founders you say believe in the idea because they are the experts
1:46:45
the technical expert for their ideas they know it best often say I say one person in the world who know it best
1:46:53
and you can do a lot of due diligence or whatever thing do to feel safe
1:46:58
but it really look look at them do you believe do they have this fire this glow in their eyes when
1:47:05
they talk about their ideas of business and then look I'll say willing to learn
1:47:12
to say managed to go away from this technology development thing to to entrepreneur where we're selling and
1:47:19
getting money is important in several teams you have a no Sayer
1:47:27
there's a person who say everything in teams that don't invest because this
1:47:32
person this negative person can kill everyone this person is also the person who's not believing
1:47:38
in the idea and just got somehow into the team because
1:47:43
it's opportunistic I mean this this brings up a question that connects to the questions before
1:47:50
but also I think it's important for investors I mean situations in a company change companies
1:47:57
evolve and not everybody is a good fit at any stage in the company so sometimes it's necessary especially when it comes
1:48:03
to negativity to keep the team moving forward and not stopping in the development to also fire people what's
1:48:11
your approach as a business initial do you also give honest and open advice and say okay guys look I mean you have five
1:48:16
great people uh get rid of the sixth person because it really holds you back and you can't move forward with that
1:48:22
kind of negativity in the company up to now in ancestry Investments if I didn't have the situation but in my own
1:48:28
contact you and this is a I think it's the one very important thing which also
1:48:35
discriminates good company for let's say normal companies everyone can hire Everyone likes to hire
1:48:41
because it's a nice thing and the tough thing is firing talking
1:48:47
with someone looking this person's design and saying we have to separate
1:48:54
and seriously a lot of people fail they are afraid to fire someone because of the knowledge
1:49:01
of this person so long it's a company what will happen to it and then this is assignment of things we
1:49:07
can't fire this person because it's so important then you have to do it immediately because the next day will be even worse
1:49:14
and in my experience whenever we had have to let go someone
1:49:21
it has never become bad it just changed but it was never a big problem we're
1:49:29
still doing this too late because it's really really tough I know when you tell the other person
1:49:35
you know this person will have a tough time afterwards
1:49:40
but believe me I have this time before a lot of my gray hairs are from this
1:49:47
these things but this is what you have to do this is this is leadership the
1:49:52
tough decisions are about you and this is not hiring it's firing in one toxic person can kill
1:49:58
your whole team yeah that's true and you have nice people they won't tell you that you have to fire someone but
1:50:05
afterwards they come hey this was a good decision and tell you what what went wrong but not beforehand you have to
1:50:11
find ways to figure this out but send if if you keep this bad person
1:50:17
or toxic persons for your company your good people believe because they
1:50:23
Block in Minnesota it sounds very rude when I talk about bad or toxic persons
1:50:28
so often you start nice and then something in private life change or it's
1:50:33
just when your company evolves in the beginning you've been five people all in
1:50:39
the same room everyone knows everything about everyone and then company grows complexity
1:50:44
increases then you have to change and some people who are perfect fit for
1:50:50
10 people commonly are not for 100. and since they realize say candy go on
1:50:57
and sometimes have safer Behavior like building their own kingdom protected and
1:51:02
blocking the growth of the company and then you have to react so I I I've even been in friend
1:51:12
with some of these people and had to fire them which kills a relationship but it was about the company it was
1:51:19
it's all about as a person is it's bad it's just a fit between comedy and the person is not a fit anymore
1:51:26
how what did you find toxic behavior in a company what Behavior do you consider as being toxic for an organization
1:51:34
talking bad about other people blocking new ideas building Heavens is protecting
1:51:39
and stopping everything and also gossiping behind your back just gossip people
1:51:46
who who say hey you're nice guys and behind your backs you say you are back
1:51:52
it's it's a no-go and what about productivity
1:51:57
when you see that some people are not so productive it is also a reason why I say you have to draw a line or is it really
1:52:03
more on the behavioral behavioral inside team spirit now productivity is I said we trust our
1:52:11
people and we do and you have good days you have bad days sometimes you have a problem in private
1:52:18
life you're ill and you have to talk with each other and be honest and say hey I having a hard time at home
1:52:26
it influences my work please be patient with me
1:52:32
and this it has never been a problem when you being aware of the situation a person
1:52:38
has so honesty and transparency helps that's true that's true I had a
1:52:44
discussion recently on LinkedIn and I would like to ask you for your opinion on the topic especially when it comes to
1:52:51
Angel Investing in my world an investor is someone that
1:52:56
deploys Capital into a company to help the company grow so basically in a business essential way a company starts
1:53:02
has an idea needs some Investments their product does not qualify yet for finding customers International investor can
1:53:09
help the team to gets to the next step so this is my investment fuel on investment generally
1:53:17
it doesn't matter if it's a company if it's a business angel or a venture capitalist it's pretty much the same
1:53:23
road deploying Capital against equity in the last 10 years in the startup
1:53:28
world I learned that some startups have more uh let's say demands to their angel
1:53:36
investors that you also would like to see them bring in their Network on an operational level that some said
1:53:44
that they would like to see the angel investor working basically for free in the company where I always have this in
1:53:50
a conflict in USA but this is not investing so business Angel deploys Capital into a company to help the team
1:53:55
okay it can also be mentoring once in a while but the team needs to operate the
1:54:00
business and lately on LinkedIn I had the conversation via comments with some
1:54:07
initial funds some seed funds I will say yes of course I mean the investors need
1:54:13
also to bring in the network and also bring in their expertise and experience what's your opinion how do you see the
1:54:18
role of a business angel in a company and not not working for free it's also investing in being there as a mentor
1:54:26
but you have to define the role and you have to speak with the founders and Define Your Role what are your expectations this is more than money is
1:54:33
it's a network and then you have to agree on it it's also a communication there is no General
1:54:39
rule I would say it's about talk talking about it and agreeing
1:54:44
what do you expect from it other than what one site would deliver
1:54:49
it's about talking I don't like this general rules that's good you have something you can
1:54:55
you can hold on there are rules yes I mean you have found everything is new the crisis adventure and say no I have
1:55:02
this rules I can stick to the rules no it's you define your own rules within a
1:55:08
legal laws but you define the rules and you talk about it and while this complex accepts the
1:55:14
complexity and talk with each other this is most important you have to break the
1:55:19
rules as a startup you do new things dialect Clarity in in also in startups I
1:55:26
mean what I like is seeing investors on cap tables uh people especially and
1:55:31
organizations who can bring in capital into a company if they have expertise in the field of the company I think in my
1:55:37
opinion remember it's always a second contract so advisory contract or executive contract why not so it's one
1:55:43
is the investment contract the other one is the operational role or a mentoring role I don't like mixing up things so
1:55:49
seeing a lot of people on the cap table that provided Services some years ago in the start of the company and still own
1:55:55
two percent doesn't make sense to me have we all said this case since the
1:56:00
very early days we had a business age approaching us more or less it was
1:56:06
can we call him business entry maybe not but a person approaching us I give you 100 000 Euros I invest in you
1:56:14
and you hire me and I earn 100 000 Euros per year
1:56:21
was just okay you said you have it on your CV this makes no sense to to invest money in the company to take it out and
1:56:28
invest so this is completely unlaudible this is also what I
1:56:34
with some Force I think it has been Heidi grinder for also before they force you to have advisors so you
1:56:41
get money from them and then you have to spend 50 000 Euros for foreign
1:56:55
so to also why why investing 500 000 Euros and taking out 50
1:57:02
phone advisor why not trying to make the most out of the money it means also you don't trust the
1:57:09
founders you have to trust the founders as they do the best with your money if you don't trust them and you have to
1:57:15
control them with advisors don't invest yeah and I thought it's a waste of time and money I don't understand this
1:57:21
concept I understand it's you invest most of his managers are responsible for
1:57:27
foreign monies they don't own some money so you just got some money from family office whatever it's
1:57:33
it's not their own money so a risk aware so she tries to manage the risk and we
1:57:39
associate waste money I mean my personal preference is to have on the cap table fans who can capitalize
1:57:46
capitalize the company in tough times or when the company opens a new market and can it has the ability to grow quicker
1:57:52
with more capital are an investor can be on the payroll when the investor brings expertise to
1:58:00
the table that's necessary for the stage of the company but but I mean if I
1:58:06
invest money I don't need money I should pay myself it's I mean investors standard on the payroll
1:58:12
you invest the money because you have it you would work for free for the company I don't work for it for the company I I
1:58:19
help them and they need me but I won't it makes no sense to me because when I can invest money it means I have enough
1:58:25
money and then putting yourself on the payroll is
1:58:31
it's not it makes no sense to me because as a business agent you have to be aware that you lose this money it's high risk
1:58:37
business you believe in the team you want to help them so this money is a wave for me and I
1:58:45
getting on a payroll it's also not
1:58:51
know it makes no sense I mean so companies here in Austria where basically the business Angel
1:58:57
um dedicates uh their full work time 40 hours per week to the company
1:59:04
um where I would say okay I mean but this is work for the company it is I don't it's not an investment role
1:59:09
anymore yeah so it's more a combination of executive and investor and in such cases they would say why not separated
1:59:15
and say okay when you're an executive let's be open and honest with a lot of people that this is an important part of
1:59:20
the company and for future fundraising it would also go down the drought to
1:59:25
find a solution with future investors to also pay a remuneration when a person dedicates for the hours of their lives
1:59:31
to the company you know like I said you said you separate the roles I couldn't produce that I invest
1:59:37
and take over the CEO role or whatever this trust means I don't believe them and suddenly it's just a lot of work if
1:59:43
you want to have a lot of work but it's it's for me it's much nicer to
1:59:50
to help the guys and to see how they evolve as an outsider sitting back and
1:59:56
looking at them makes me makes me proud and I don't want to have
2:00:02
to spend work real work into it I believe them they are the
2:00:09
experts they know it best when they need help they approach me and this is perfect
2:00:14
so I think we have the same opinion then if I understood you right as an investor as a natural investor you invest in the
2:00:19
company you deploy Capital yeah but you don't work for the company exactly and you want to have teams that you can
2:00:26
trust that they are the best solution for developing the product forward and finding product Market fit yeah and you
2:00:33
don't interfere with them is accept some mentoring or some some support factors but you don't go to
2:00:39
their office and tell them how to do that oh they know it best I mean it makes absolutely no they could have started say when they
2:00:46
know something best it starts a business by myself yeah so we come back to trust yeah exactly
2:00:51
Philip I could go on talking with you and the sleeper I see on the clock that we already coming close to two hours
2:00:58
talking uh I would like to ask me two final questions if this is fine with you
2:01:05
uh didn't miss anything in this episode is there any question open that you
2:01:10
would like me to ask I'm a Singapore because it's two hours I think we talked about a lot
2:01:19
no we also we even had trolling bikhar in our conversation that's great that sounds great yeah this engage thing no I
2:01:26
didn't miss anything then let me ask you my final question you have a lot of experience as a
2:01:33
scientist you grow up you grow out of a small village in Bavaria went to a
2:01:38
university started your company uh you have built a really impressed pressing
2:01:45
success story with Nano Tempo I mean scaling a company to over 200 employees in a multinational environment is not an
2:01:52
easy job especially in the last three years with all these shutdowns and you mentioned before that you like talking
2:01:58
to people in person I think lockdowns must have been a tough time to change the leadership style you amended that
2:02:04
perfectly you kept your company growing and you are still hiring and flowing with a company
2:02:11
when you would have a chance to step into I think it's also Star Trek
2:02:17
start records of this time travel yeah or H2 Wells if you could get a time machine and travel back to your younger
2:02:25
self let's say around 2000. uh what advice with all the experience
2:02:32
you gained in the last 23 years what advice would you give your younger self
2:02:38
so I would never do this because knowing my younger self because what I do is I like to listen to
2:02:45
people and but I do my thing so I get all the information
2:02:51
but it's about information or influence so my advice would be not only to my
2:02:56
younger self because afterwards you always know no better
2:03:01
do your thing and thing is really about do get all this information available talk
2:03:08
with a lot of people gets advices but two and no
2:03:14
people's experience with you experience experience are from the past experience
2:03:19
are limited when something was impossible in the past reconsider it
2:03:24
because situation the past was different and now and in the future is a new technology things who have been which
2:03:31
have been impossible in the past may now be possible so take the vices takes the
2:03:37
experience particular you are now and there is a future
2:03:42
so to it to your sink that's great advice get going get
2:03:48
started Philip had a great time in the last two hours talking to you you shared important Leadership Lessons important
2:03:55
lessons how to move company forward I wish you and your team all the best thank you please please please keep
2:04:01
going and really work hard on making every disease treatable I think it gives back so much quality in life when people
2:04:08
know that there are other people working to keep them safe and healthy it's a
2:04:14
it's the best thing I ever heard uh in the last 108 episodes in my opinion saving the world thank you that's great
2:04:20
that's awesome thank you enjoyed it very much me too me too and normally now I
2:04:26
would push the I would click the mouse to end the recording uh here I think we
2:04:31
have to I need to wait engage
2:04:36