Did you know that the successful pipeline of one of the most important pharmaceutical companies in the United States started in Europe, and scientists from Prague played a key role? Did you know that profound expertise in turning deep tech life science into a business, scale it, and go public in the US can be found in Prague since the late 80s of the previous century?
If you want to know which US pharmaceutical companies' pipeline started in Prague, then listen to this Episode Number 25. I am delighted to host an exceptional guest from one of the most beautiful cities in Europe. I will talk with Karel Kubias from i&i in Prague.
Karel studied organic chemistry and photochemistry at TH Merseburg, Germany, and holds an MBA in Healthcare Management (Auburn University program).
He gained his broad professional knowledge and skills during his 24 years in various management positions at multinational chemical and pharmaceutical company Merck KGaA. Between 2006 – 2015, Karel worked in executive positions – first as Managing Director of Merck spol. s r.o.. Prague and then as Regional sales director for the region EEMEA (Eastern Europe, Middle East & Africa) of Merck Millipore division, where he acquired further experience on the international level. He now supports i&i Prague as Director for Partnerships and Strategic Alliances.
i&i Prague is accelerating the proof-of-concept stage of projects in the fields of Medtech, Diagnostics, and Drug discovery. The company focuses on projects in the discovery, pre-seed, or seed phase with excellent innovative potential, which will benefit from the project-launching experience and networking skills developed by IOCB Tech over the last decade. Furthermore, the financial support provided by i&i Prague should significantly increase the appeal and value of a project for further licensees and/ or investors.
Youtube
Speaker:
Christian Soschner (https://www.linkedin.com/in/christiansoschner/)
Karel Kubias (https://www.linkedin.com/in/karelkubias/)
Organizations:
CS Life Science Invest (https://lnkd.in/eyhWK7H)
i&i Prague (https://www.linkedin.com/company/iniprague/)
IOCB Tech (https://www.linkedin.com/company/iocb-tto-s-r-o-/)
IOCB (https://www.linkedin.com/company/iocb-prague/)
Be part of our Network:
Subscribe here: https://mailchi.mp/e2467061ef75/lsg2g
Join the Podcast Newsletter: Link
Did you know that the successful pipeline of one of the most important pharmaceutical companies in the United States started in Europe, and scientists from Prague played a key role? Did you know that profound expertise in turning deep tech life science into a business, scale it, and go public in the US can be found in Prague since the late 80s of the previous century?
If you want to know which US pharmaceutical companies' pipeline started in Prague, then listen to this Episode Number 25. I am delighted to host an exceptional guest from one of the most beautiful cities in Europe. I will talk with Karel Kubias from i&i in Prague.
Karel studied organic chemistry and photochemistry at TH Merseburg, Germany, and holds an MBA in Healthcare Management (Auburn University program).
He gained his broad professional knowledge and skills during his 24 years in various management positions at multinational chemical and pharmaceutical company Merck KGaA. Between 2006 – 2015, Karel worked in executive positions – first as Managing Director of Merck spol. s r.o.. Prague and then as Regional sales director for the region EEMEA (Eastern Europe, Middle East & Africa) of Merck Millipore division, where he acquired further experience on the international level. He now supports i&i Prague as Director for Partnerships and Strategic Alliances.
i&i Prague is accelerating the proof-of-concept stage of projects in the fields of Medtech, Diagnostics, and Drug discovery. The company focuses on projects in the discovery, pre-seed, or seed phase with excellent innovative potential, which will benefit from the project-launching experience and networking skills developed by IOCB Tech over the last decade. Furthermore, the financial support provided by i&i Prague should significantly increase the appeal and value of a project for further licensees and/ or investors.
Youtube
Speaker:
Christian Soschner (https://www.linkedin.com/in/christiansoschner/)
Karel Kubias (https://www.linkedin.com/in/karelkubias/)
Organizations:
CS Life Science Invest (https://lnkd.in/eyhWK7H)
i&i Prague (https://www.linkedin.com/company/iniprague/)
IOCB Tech (https://www.linkedin.com/company/iocb-tto-s-r-o-/)
IOCB (https://www.linkedin.com/company/iocb-prague/)
Be part of our Network:
Subscribe here: https://mailchi.mp/e2467061ef75/lsg2g
Join the Podcast Newsletter: Link
0:00
welcome to a new episode of the life science get together podcast today with carl kubiels welcome to the
0:06
show carol thank you very much christiane and thank you very much for this invitation
0:12
you're welcome karen you are in prague how is life in prague these days uh these days are
0:20
quite uh critical because of the corona very challenging but we all
0:26
of us we hope that we will overcome it soon yeah that's true and i think one important
Expertise in the pharmaceutical industry
0:32
part to overcome such a crisis is the pharmaceutical industry and uh if i remember it right you have a
0:39
long history and a lot of experience in this industry can you tell us a little bit more about
0:45
your expertise uh you mean expertise in the pharma
0:50
industry yeah yeah uh from from my background i am chemists yeah that means
0:56
it was quite a short way to the chemical pharmaceutical company merc
1:03
where i spent the majority of my working life almost 25 years
1:10
and uh i went through different managerial positions and uh in the 10
1:18
last years at merc it was between 2006 2015 i
1:25
was managing director of the czech subsidiary of uh merck
1:31
in prague and then i continued in uh the regional responsibility for eastern
1:37
europe middle east and africa in the life science division division of
1:43
mark yeah but of course i i was as a managing director i was responsible for the
1:48
pharma business as well yeah so as a chemist you really understand the entire
What are you doing currently
1:54
industry and the science behind the products from the early stages of development up to
2:00
the market entry and also how to bring therapies to the patients
2:06
after your roles it at merck you switched from uh the end of the value chain the
2:11
patient perspective back to the more scientific part what are you doing currently
2:17
uh currently i am working for the ini
2:23
organization maybe we will talk uh more in details about that later which is a
2:28
tech transfer organization yeah and
2:34
with the knowledge let's say of the chemistry of a little bit of the science and
2:40
then broad knowledge of the industry chemical industry multinational
2:46
companies local in the local perspective as well as international perspective we are able
2:54
to connect both worlds scientific world and the industry and this is the role
3:02
of the tech transfer to be like a bridge uh between the signs uh between the discoveries and between
3:09
the industry and this is now our role yeah that's a good point let's stay a little bit with the current
What are the current challenges
3:15
challenges i mean everybody is i think aware of the pandemic that's going on it's caused by a noble virus
3:21
that originated in chinese scientists uh sequenced it first
3:27
let's put it that way and the pharmaceutical industry is working uh day and night to find
3:34
solutions on the therapeutic sites on the vaccine side and also on the
3:39
diagnostic side so let's look a little bit about on the value chain you mentioned
3:45
uh tech transfer what exactly is tech transfer doing in prague
3:53
or in general or in in general maybe i would spend some worlds uh words
4:00
on the expression tech transfer because i think it's important to
4:05
understand what is the role of such organizations and you can find
4:11
[Music] different uh definitions on internet uh but i can explain it to you how i
4:19
feel it you can imagine tech transfer like a bridge over the building
4:24
on one side of the valley you have the discovery the innovative idea on the other side
4:31
of the valley there is the industry market consumers customers
4:37
and the valley in between is full of challenges norms regulations
4:44
laws frustration and a lot of danger waiting for the
4:50
scientists and the tech transfer organization
4:56
is able like the over bridge these challenges and help the project teams do
5:03
to help the innovation innovative ideas uh to come to the industry to be
5:09
marketed and finally sold as a product um what challenges do you see me and when i
What challenges do you see
5:15
think um let's say when i put how should i put it uh what do you think about scientists
5:21
to me they look very creative so that job is to be innovative
5:28
to find something new and um to think in ways that nobody else did before
5:34
so the problem i see with tech transfer when i look on the industrial side i see the industry is very focused and
5:42
executing so the industry focuses on one topic on one goal and executes how what
5:49
challenges do you see to overcome between these two worlds
5:54
in the process yeah of uh let's say the finding a new discovery uh
6:00
do new new innovation on on the one side of the belly you can come
6:08
to certain result yeah you have a brilliant idea innovative idea
6:14
but now is is the problem how you can market
6:20
your organization how you can make it interesting for the industry yeah
6:27
and of course there are few aspects which you should fulfill
6:34
as a project holder uh in order to make this project interesting for the uh for the industry
6:43
first of all it should be like innovative idea yeah uh very innovative
6:50
discovery uh the second point is that uh
6:58
the transferability from the original laboratory uh should be
7:05
sure or secure yeah because there is quite a high rate of failure of the project because of that
7:12
i think even 70 of project fail because they are not transferable
7:19
from one laboratory to another one now we have currently in one in our pipeline one project from
7:26
germany uh this is a brilliant idea of new synthesis of peptides
7:32
in water solutions you don't use the organic solvents
7:39
which could be really very welcomed in the future uh it works this synthesis works
7:47
in the laboratory of this project team uh and we tried to transfer it to iocb
7:54
in prague or uh to other companies in prague as well uh to make the
8:00
synthesis uh and currently there are some challenges uh that so far we are not
8:06
fully a hundred percent sure that this will be possible yeah and in this case if there is a
8:13
failure it doesn't make sense to invest yeah into into such project that means there is
8:20
really need for transferability of this of this project yeah
8:26
there should be like a demonstration of the proof of concept because the idea is
8:34
very good in the beginning it could theoretically it could work
8:39
but you need to have something tangible in the hand to show it to the potential investors
8:46
yeah because the investors they have interest for such project and they are prepared to
8:52
invest in the case that is really a brilliant idea new idea
8:57
this is innovation innovative idea and it works and there is a high
9:04
probability that you can make from this idea
9:09
finally a product and go to the market yeah i agree with that i think the proof
What is the next step
9:14
of concept at least in an animal trial is key to success when it comes to talk to investors
9:20
i would call it it's the minimum viable product so when i listen to you i mean
9:26
there are a lot of challenges to overcome uh on the project level yeah we even
9:32
consider of founding a company and you said about 90 percent of 70 of these projects fail because the
9:38
results are not transferable um and or maybe the project is not innovative enough
9:44
what what is the next step then let's assume we have uh figured out that the project works is
9:50
transferable and we are confident that we can show a proof of concept in animal uh what are the next steps in the value
9:57
chain that you would recommend the the next step in in our case if we
10:02
have let's say the project in our portfolio and we first in the first line we
10:09
evaluate the project yeah if this is really if it works if
10:14
there is a proof of concept we discuss it with the industry even
10:19
if the project is meaningful and then if we decide we want to support
10:26
such a project then either we are looking for the license partner
10:33
for this project or thanks our contacts in the in the industry we are looking
10:40
for partners in pharma industry or life science industry for potential
10:46
co-development or even in the future for co-investment yeah and let's say the
10:54
final stage of such support of the project is finding the
11:01
so-called exit partner that means company which is willing
11:06
to take this idea uh this project and make a product final product and
11:13
marketize it ideally let's stay a little bit earlier in the value chain you mentioned that uh
Exit partners
11:18
once you have found a project and you think it's fit to be put into a company and also you
11:25
find a team there are two approaches so on one hand you talk to investors
11:30
and on the other hand you talk to industrial partners also known as the pharmaceutical
11:36
industry and this is a very interesting discussion where we often have tech transfer offices officers and
11:42
offices i myself have a background in running life science companies who are
11:48
pre-clinically and clinical stage and from my perspective and from my experience what i saw over the last 14
11:55
years i always got the impression which i did not do any statistics about it so it's
12:00
pure impression that the sweet spot of the pharmaceutical industry
12:06
is picking up companies that have data packages when we look at the therapeutic
12:11
site uh for clinical phase two and when you talk to uh tech transfer officers who work very
12:18
early they very often say yeah we approach pharma right away and i don't
12:24
really see them actually in my mind so it says proof of concept in humans
12:29
and transfer officers who also see other models in your opinion and with your experience
12:35
what models do exist on the market currently when we want to talk with pharma is it
12:40
just a late stage game that they're on the exit side or are there more and more uh
12:45
models collaboration models coming up for the earliest stages of development i i i would say that they are like uh
12:53
two uh two points in the development of the project when
12:59
you talk to the pharma company or to the industry it could be in the face in the early age
13:07
early stage of the development of the project when you talk to the industry
13:13
and ask them uh for support with the evaluation of the project it means uh that the discovery
13:21
should be evaluated if it is it really makes sense for the for the
13:26
industry and for the market if the idea is meaning
13:31
meaningful if it really makes sense to continue let's say in the development of the of
13:37
the project and then of course uh pharma industry
13:43
is very strong in the phases like preclinical clinical
13:48
phase production yeah these are the core competencies
13:54
of the pharma industry it means it makes sense after certain development
13:59
of the product project if we are in the advanced stage then to talk to pharma
14:06
industry once again and ask them for the cooperation
14:12
core development co-investment even if it makes sense for the company and to the company uh maybe could accept
14:20
this project uh as a future and it's interesting and i think these
Why is pharma not picking up projects early
14:25
are important points that you're saying so first and they hear it very often it makes sense to approach the pharma industry
14:31
very early but more with the intention of market research
14:36
so to find out whether a noble technology really addresses a problem that the farmer
14:42
experts see on the market or if you're just somewhere where we don't really find a customer at
14:50
the end of the day and secondly what i got from what you're saying that we can also see the pharma industry
14:57
as a potential uh collaboration partner in a way that it can
15:03
uh provide services against the fee so it's a service production very
15:09
clinical models and i think the third part that we see in the pharma industry when we are later in development that
15:16
you mentioned is that they can become an exit partner and basically uh sign a contract with the well-known
15:26
billions yes yeah on the contract the the question that pops up in my mind
15:32
when i just look at these three models is in your opinion why
15:38
is the pharma industry not picking up projects early on if they can do
15:44
everything themselves well do they more focus on the later stages of the value chain
15:50
and leave the earlier stages to someone else i would say somehow it's linked
15:59
to costs and to risks
16:04
because there are many research areas yeah in the discovery
16:11
of new medicine and so on and even if a pharma company specific pharma
16:17
company focuses a [Music]
16:23
few areas even with early stage projects there is
16:30
a high probability of failure that it means uh pharma industry in this
16:38
way lowers the failure risk yeah and leave it with academic area
16:46
and research institutes then the the the because uh
16:54
to be maybe more concrete it's much more effective for the pharma industry
17:01
to manage 10 projects in advanced stage then 100 in early stage yeah
17:09
it could be really very costly because of the management of this project and of course
17:16
because of the failure rate yeah the the second
17:21
reason why i think it's a really a good split between the research
17:28
academia and pharma this process uh is uh the let's say the
17:35
the lack of surprising innovation in pharma yeah that means thinking out of the box
17:43
three thinking this is exactly what is only in academia area possible
17:51
or mostly in academia possible it means these are for me
17:57
the main two reasons the other lower the risk and the lack
18:04
of high innovation potential yeah in the pharma i agree with that and
Reducing complexity
18:11
i have a story in my mind this adds to what you mentioned reducing complexity when i finished
18:18
my university degree in grads it was an economy i started working for a listed company
18:24
and it was a multi-billion dollar business so on a university level and in the commercial school before
18:30
we learned to calculate with a lot of zeros after the comma position
18:36
so the first reports i did in this multinational company i calculated with a lot of numbers after
18:43
the comma and uh my boss she was one of the most successful women in merger acquisition
18:49
in austria these days laughed and said christian you can forget that it's we are multi-billion
18:54
dollar business you start thinking in millions yeah yeah you may make the right decisions and i
19:01
completely agree that because when i uh what you said complexity when i look at the early stages of the
19:06
development i mean uh uh the budget positions we need a few
19:11
thousand or a few hundred thousand euros so when i look at fisa for example
19:17
or rush with the multi-billion dollar budgets this would be teeny weeny positions and
19:23
uh they would not really appear in any budget so when you think of nipple scientists
19:28
the second thing is attention uh when i think to the pool scientists that they do important work that nobody
19:35
sees and they get zero attention uh i think they would not be very happy in a pharma
19:40
pharmaceutical company uh but when they look at the funding space for example a fund who who has 20 to 30 million euros
19:47
to invest and they have to allocate a budget uh of three or four hundred thousand euros
19:54
they really focus their attention on the team and help them and support them yeah yeah but yeah i think this is the reason why
20:00
by pharmacists out of the game um but there still is uh this this uh you
20:07
said well value of death between science and science and uh in the successful exit
20:15
uh how do you handle spin outs in in prague what's your experience and what are the advantages of spinning something
20:21
out of the university level uh yeah of course for spin-off
20:27
there is uh the advantage for the organization and the disadvantage uh as well at the
20:33
same time because what what we can see currently uh
20:40
more and more uh spin-offs are currently creating in prague and
20:47
spinoff it means like curve out a part of organization and create a new legal entity separate
20:55
organization which has disadvantage for the scientists
21:00
in that way that they simply lose in this way the support of the
21:06
academia area and the financing from
21:11
from the academia part uh very often there is
21:17
the disadvantage as well in that way that these people are not experienced
21:25
in business yeah they don't have so strong entrepreneurial thinking
21:32
and very often they are afraid to create spin-off yeah in that way we try to
21:39
support these organizations uh with our let's say business knowledge
21:44
or we are trying to find a person from the business who could support this
21:50
team in order to create spin-off the advantage
21:56
of the spin-off is that there is simply the
22:03
separate legal entity with the possibility to use the private
22:09
money yeah that means you can take the money from the investors
22:15
which was not so possible in the academia area yeah and of course
22:23
the investors they invest into separate legal entities not into
22:29
academia yeah that means this is uh on one side advantage on the
22:34
other side disadvantage for for spin-offs um yeah
Missing skills
22:41
just try to figure i think i never saw an investor investing in academia
22:47
no except except philanthropy just tries to find anything and it's really true if you want to have
22:54
money for development you need to put the patents and the lead scientists into a new company
23:01
but i think you mentioned it a little bit the the key challenge is uh that it's not enough to be a
23:07
scientist when when somebody want to run a company we need additional skills
23:12
what are in your opinion the missing skills that we need to add to the science that we can really talk
23:19
about running a company
23:26
i think that people they they are scientists
23:32
and they have a plan to create a spin-off in the future uh they should really
23:40
think about the markets about business about business plan
23:47
yeah how to realize the final product from
23:54
their discovery from their uh innovative idea yeah and that means uh there definitely
24:01
should be like business feeling they can either learn it somehow or they can
24:10
ask a mentor from outside from the maybe
24:16
business area to support them in this way yeah that means the the feeling for for
24:22
the business uh should be there definitely and and the premier entrepreneur feeling uh i don't know if
24:30
you can learn it it should be somehow born in you but into certain
24:37
setting grade you can definitely get or learn these these skills
Building teams
24:45
a huge fan of building teams i think a company is not a one-man show so when uh i see scientists who say they
24:51
want everything to for themselves the first thing i ask them is are you really sure that the company is
24:57
the right thing uh because i i believe it's necessary to have two different skill sets uh
25:04
different people who learned it because it makes a difference um what help do you provide with ini to
25:11
find the right people in in europe when a scientist approaches you
25:17
uh you you mean in the sub supporting uh these project teams yeah project teams
25:23
are structuring that so it's a very broad question so structuring business plans uh
25:28
thank you people uh what what kind of let's let's call it services
25:36
can a scientist expect when he starts talking with you in your role as a direct strategic
25:42
alliances at ini uh i think uh ini
25:48
is quite specific in this in this way yeah because we cover
25:54
really very complex services yeah and it starts uh with the people of
26:00
course yeah because our ceo jaramillo zahratka
26:05
is on one side has a phd in chemistry on the other side
26:11
he graduated from the university of economics and business in prague that
26:16
means he covers both business and science three other colleagues
26:24
they have phd yeah in chemistry biochemistry immunology
26:29
with quite close link to the industry and this is exactly
26:38
the expertise and service we can provide to these startups or project
26:45
teams it means we are able uh to support them in creating a business
26:52
plan we are in the position to make
26:57
connection to the industry yeah and link the project team
27:02
with let's say r d in pharma company yeah and this is let's say
27:09
for the beginning and then of course if there is the further development of the project
27:16
we are in contact with different fonts we even are in the position
27:23
to invest because we have source of the money in iocb in prague
27:30
and this is the next component of our support yeah that means we are
27:37
able to support the business side scientific side and the investment side as well okay
Business model
27:44
that's great may ask what's the business model dennis are you more on the investment side and provides the
27:51
services on top or these two different different parts of your of the ini business
27:57
so that you charge separately to say for example writing a business plan is it a service that is connected to the
28:03
incubation investment side or is it something that people have to charge for
28:10
normally let's say if we invest into the company then this is the part of our service uh
28:18
there could be a different models yeah we could have let's say a small equity in the company
28:26
uh like uh a payment for our service yeah and our approach is
28:33
really very very individual now because each product is very individual with
28:40
different teams different people in the teams with different skills and i would say that again
28:48
that this is the advantage of ini prague that we have this flexibility
28:56
and i think we have enough experience from the business from the science to provide the service
29:02
uh to uh to such teams of course we have lawyer in the team as well
29:08
and we provide the if we are talking about contracts with the companies we can support uh
29:14
the teams with this um expertise as well so let's let's assume i know a scientist
29:20
so when i when i tell a scientist okay talk with i and i give you the necessary support it means
29:25
scientists can approach you you evaluate the project and uh find out whether you can do something
29:33
for the scientist or if it's not in your area of expertise yeah and then you start working with the
29:39
scientists but don't charge service fees or something so your model is more either you invest as a fund then it's
29:46
part of the investment or if the scientists find other investors somewhere in the world and
29:53
ini is not investing so it's more against the small percentage of equity yeah could we get something yeah so this is
29:59
very formal it's really a very very individual uh project by project yeah how did the
30:06
ecosystem i mean ironic is located in prague uh and it's doing a great job and when i
30:11
think about the people i know in america one thing they always point out is uh that europe is so complex so let's
30:20
try to reduce a little bit complexity and shine a little bit of light on the ecosystem in prague
30:26
how did it evolve in life science maybe before i start to talk about
30:33
ini iocb iocb tag about this triangle let me talk a little bit about the
30:41
history of the development because if i look back 20 years ago let's say
30:46
in the new millennium there were discussions uh in our country how to develop the
30:54
signs in czech republic fire and as a result of these discussions
31:00
uh in early 2000 were established new innovation centers
31:08
in the country yeah by using the european money it means uh czech republic entered the
31:14
eu 2004 it means around uh this this time
31:21
innovation centers were established like uh built f near to prague or early beam
31:27
lines this is the laser research center or regional research centers yeah
Innovation Centers
31:35
10 years later around 2010 yeah and important uh is to add
31:42
that these innovation centers were established uh with the target to attract
31:50
uh the scientists in foreign countries to come to check and to work here in this area yeah and i
31:57
would say that around 2010 there was already enough results in innovation in research
32:06
and suddenly there was clear that there is a lack of the engine which could
32:14
help to transfer these innovative ideas uh to the industry
32:20
and i would say that in this time uh the tech transfer organizations were
32:28
established one of the first was the iocb tech who was established by professor martin
32:35
fusek who on one side is a scientist
32:40
but on the other side he has a long history in the business yeah and
32:47
here you have both components business one side of the valley
32:53
and signs the other side of the valley and i think there's the knowledge in between and i think also the expertise uh he
33:00
also got expertise in the united states if you remember it right so yeah you also have a lot of i think at
33:05
iocp and iocp tech you also have a lot of people who who worked in the united states yes
33:12
yeah because there is a close link between between iocb as a research institute
33:19
uh and u.s universities and uh for example the uh pharmaceutical
33:26
uh company elite yeah this was it was interesting i uh met the first time i met
IOCB Tech
33:32
representatives of iocb and the lcp tech was back i think in 2017
33:39
in japan and so we were talking along and uh then they said yeah with this before gilead and i thought
33:45
first it was uh an organization in the united states
33:50
so uh i did a little bit of research after this first talk and it was very interesting to find out
33:56
i mean a new guillotine is a well-known name especially for people in the industry
34:02
who also invest on the stock market it must not be really scientist skillet is one of the i think uh best pharma companies that
34:09
evolved since the early 90s and what what i learned then from 2017
34:14
on the basically the blockbuster pipeline of gilead to put it very bluntly originated in prague yes yes so how did
34:22
that happen yeah because it happened in 70s 80s of last century
34:30
in the team of professor holly who discovered uh new promising molecules uh
34:39
for uh hiv treatment yeah and in cooperation with gleed
34:46
then this idea this discovery uh was put into the final product
34:55
which was sold then by greed and because this business
35:02
was and has been very successful iocb gets very nice realities
35:10
uh till today it's uh more than 100 million dollars
35:16
annually and this is really very nice financing
35:23
of the research institute but consequently financing of iocb tech and ini as well
35:33
now because the iocb tech it was established 2010 as a service
35:39
organization for ilcb financed from these realities by iocb and
35:47
the role of iocb tech was let's say the tech transfer of
35:53
discoveries from iocb to the industry yeah
36:00
and uh it's based mainly on so uh selling the licenses that the great
Where can I find support
36:07
points let's stay a little bit on the tech transfer level so that we uh shine a little bit more light on that
36:14
and what you're doing for the scientists um when i work as a business angel or as
36:19
an executive i very often talk also with scientists from all over europe
36:25
and it's quite funny up so recently i was talking with summer from the united kingdom and this person asked me where can i
36:32
find support so i pointed out look we have the isct summer school
36:38
in tyrol you can go to austria we have inits and aws and ist cube uh on the on the west
36:45
head of austria we have ini in prague and then this person said yeah but what
36:50
should i do there i mean when i moved to austria when i moved to prague i have to live there forever and ever and then there is no
36:57
pharmaceutical industry and how should i market my product anyways so
37:03
how do you see that in europe is it really necessary to to to move to prague and to stick to
37:08
prague for the next 40 years of the scientists life with no chance of spitting out the idea
37:14
to the american company uh definitely not definitely not because i i think that the
37:19
science discoveries innovations are international they are not purely czech or austrian
37:27
or german it means that of course we support projects
37:35
the majority of the projects we support are from czech republic but our responsibility
37:43
for the discoveries for innovation for supporting this project is in mainly central europe
37:51
yeah of course we have uh projects uh outside this scope in israel for example
37:56
as well it means uh that we are really not a limited direct player to the location czech
38:04
republic but we support with our investment companies uh in other countries as well
38:12
currently there is because we are in contact uh with for example life-size incubator
38:19
in dresden in germany we are in contact with ist cube in vienna with ave s in vienna
38:27
uh with toucher which is a technical agency for supporting uh the innovations in
38:34
czech republic uh very cool similar to aves uh in in vienna uh we are in contact
38:42
with these agencies organizations and of course it's possible if you have
38:48
one project for example in slovakia you can move make a subsidiary or move your project
38:55
to austria and you can get additional financing from the austrian government that means it's really very
39:03
international you are not bind to stay forever in one location definitely not
Funding
39:11
yeah i can i can absolutely do that i think it's necessary to start somewhere where the maybe two things
39:18
happen either it's the the ecosystem is very compelling so for example when you think of prague you always have iocp in mind
39:25
within my opinion uh first in class chemistry yes i think we have 700 chemists working at
39:32
the iocp or something around that it's it's a huge team um
39:37
the second thing is just where you like living but when you look at the reality then later on i always
39:44
tell scientists you need to prepare to move anyways because when the scientist really has a great
39:51
project that has potential to become a product that serves an unmet need on the market we
39:59
can probably uh find another 10 20 to 30 million euros of funding in europe
40:05
yes but the later stages of development
40:10
usually funding sources are very scarce in europe and there are more sources in the united states how do you see the the funding
40:18
value chain in our industry
40:24
funding is on one side coming from let's say the governments yeah
40:30
because in in austria you have aws uh
40:36
in czech republic we have toucher um in germany uh there is a uh
40:45
heart akf fund where the projects in the country could be financed yeah on
40:51
the other side you have private investors like ini
40:57
because thanks the realities what iocb gets from gillette we have the possibility to
41:05
invest into one project let's say 200 up to half a million euros in one
41:11
run yeah and of course we are looking for other partners other co investors
41:18
into into a promising promising project yeah it means that uh normally uh
41:25
you have the support if you are in czech republic you have support from toucher like
41:30
governmental money you can get that if you are in austria with the project you can get governmental money from
41:36
aws in germany other font yeah and then additionally you can
41:43
have the private money and we are in the position to talk to other
41:48
investors and attract the project to them yeah
41:54
there is another another possibility where we are currently thinking about
41:59
and working on that to increase our ticket size for the
42:05
investment up to 2 million let's say euros per
42:12
run in the case that we are successful in the discussion in
42:18
the european investment fund yeah this is let's say the next level
42:24
this is the next level uh of the approach of ini
42:29
how to increase the investment possibilities into promising projects yeah because we
42:35
see it yeah after three years uh on the market
42:40
we see how big the potential is yeah and really currently the ticket let's say
42:46
200 000 euros is a little bit small part
42:54
of the potential we see in the projects yeah because in the past three years we were able to
43:01
evaluate around 100 projects and in the beginning we were looking for
43:09
the projects on the market but currently the project teams project holders are
43:15
contacting us contacting us yeah and asking for support and we have increasing really increasing
43:23
number of good projects promising projects and this is like
43:28
hand in hand with our intention really to increase the possibility to invest into into the
43:35
science uh into the new projects it's good news to hear how the
Early stage funding
43:41
ecosystem in europe evolves and develop i started in life science 15 years ago and had
43:49
the great chance to start directly in this with a spin out from novatis which was
43:55
funded directly with a series a funding of 40 million euros and this was very unique and i think
44:02
it's still very unique 15 years later when i started with the
44:07
collapse of the stock market i started working more and more with early stage programs with scientists with spinouts
44:13
and the reality in 2008 9 was that there were not
44:19
many funds around and people around who were prepared to invest in the inception
44:25
of the company so the public funding was always great but the gap was very huge between the
44:33
public funding side the spinout site and the investment side because we see
44:39
funds usually that i met start investing when the round size is a minimum of three to five
44:44
million euros so especially in the early stages we don't need as much money there are still high risks so we need a few
44:50
hundred thousands to do of some trials to the risk approach yes and this is the sweet spot of the vcs
44:56
and the problem always was um business angels can do only so much so
45:01
few projects and we had really this this professional organization's missing
45:07
and what i hear from you this is absolutely the sweet spot of ini so you like also to help scientists
45:15
before they in the precede stage and in the city yeah they get it right yes yeah we are
45:22
really very much interested in the early stage of the project yeah that
45:28
means that we have really uh the the that we get at the very beginning of the
45:34
project we support the scientists of course and then we can
45:40
somehow accompany them uh in the further development of the project yeah
45:46
and uh it could take let's say five years yeah till let's say the exit uh of the
45:52
project to uh industry to a pharmaceutical company for example and it means uh we really
46:00
are in the position with with our expertise with our complexity uh to focus on this
46:07
broad spectrum of the development uh of the project what do you prefer i mean
Setting the exit
46:14
you set the exit uh i think there are always two scenarios and it's uh something that interests me
46:19
um i saw two models so there is this one trick pony it's
46:26
one company one project and we find an exit and then i have the second model uh
46:33
which is a company that starts building a pipeline and which later on is not exited in a
46:38
traditional way that it's uh sold to the pharma industry uh it rather finds licensing partners for
46:45
single projects and start building a pipeline uh when what is your recommendation
46:51
uh what's the better way when is the one-trick pony model suitable and when is the the company formation
46:58
model more suitable well what's your personal opinion on that um in
47:06
in our pipeline with the project we currently have uh
47:14
so far we have let's say equities in seven seven companies yeah they are
47:21
in let's say in the early stage not early stage of the development but
47:26
of early stage of the company development and they are so far
47:33
independent but some of them
47:39
were even contacted but by pharma company that later they are interested to be
47:47
like an exit partner yeah this is currently our experience with uh with
47:53
the project how
47:59
the spin-off or the separate legal entity could be uh successful in the in the
48:06
future yeah this is the current experience we have okay great let's let's talk a little bit
Young scientists
48:13
uh about stack transfer and young scientists had uh last week an interesting talk
48:19
with scientists from oxford they are phd students and it reminded me
48:27
of my days in the 90s when i was on the university the basic training was finish your
48:34
university degree at least master find a job gain some experience in an industry you like
48:41
and when you hit your 50s or 60s then you can found the company to make
48:46
some money for your retirement you know the industry you solve the problem and in this talk with this young
48:53
scientist from oxford i got the feeling that they have a different mindset like we had like i had
48:59
back in the 90s they want to found companies right away with their phd thesis yeah
49:06
what's your advice and recommendation to such young scientists what they should do
49:11
first of all really congratulations yeah because if you are scientists and at the same
49:17
time uh you have like a feeling for the business and uh you want to create your own
49:24
company maybe spin off or create based on your thesis company this is
49:32
really something uh really welcome they are because more and more spin-offs will be created
49:38
in the in the future uh but if you are as a scientist in the very beginning
49:44
i maybe i would come back uh to to the quality of the project yeah in which
49:49
case the project could be successful simply you should be sure that your idea
49:54
is really very innovative this is the first one
50:00
you should be sure that uh you nee you you find a market
50:08
for your product yeah if from this idea you are able to to to produce or to prepare a product
50:16
you need to check the transfer ability yeah if this is linked only to your laboratory
50:22
or you could be transferred to other laboratory that means you can sell for example license
50:28
yeah um prepare the proof of concept and of course make a
50:38
market evaluation potential of the market prepare a business plan that means your
50:44
strategy how the company should be developed within the next five years what is your vision uh
50:52
what is your target for the company yeah this this would be like uh key points
51:00
uh the scientists should be aware before starting uh a company from my
51:06
perspective from my experience that's great i think i can absolutely agree with that uh
How to get in touch
51:12
that's these are the first points and the next point then could be to directly approach you in prague with ini
51:21
i guess this would absolutely absolutely yeah because we are we are really happy uh to support
51:28
science to support scientists and new projects because in some
51:34
some aspects we feel it like our responsibility yeah somehow giving back uh to the
51:42
society as well yeah with support uh the science yeah
51:47
uh the scientists with the promising project uh they of course uh could uh contact us
51:55
in prague i i think you have for the contact and links uh i will provide the links in the
52:00
description to the podcast yeah and really we would be happy we had to to talk to uh new people
52:08
uh with interest of creating uh company and uh we can talk to them and
52:15
support them if really the uh idea is innovative and we see um
52:22
like um sense for our focused area it means drug discovery
52:29
diagnostics medical devices yeah this is our focus you're also working in medical devices
52:36
yes yes but but i i would say that the majority is like drug discovery and diagnostics
Patents
52:42
okay i have one question um patents so when it comes to science very often
52:49
there is the situation that once the idea is out on the market it's difficult to patent
52:56
something how important to you is uh having uh an idea patented
53:03
before starting talking with ini yeah this is this is always one of the points
53:09
we evaluate yeah if there is a new project
53:14
we are always looking for patents yeah if the idea is protected or not and of
53:20
course this is a advantage big advantage if there is already a patent on that innovation on that
53:29
discovery so to sum it up uh at the end of the talk i would say
53:36
when a scientist has an idea uh the first thing to evaluate is
53:41
whether the scientist wants to stay on the university level or wants to become an entrepreneur
53:46
exactly exactly so if it really fits the entrepreneurial spirit because it's a different world it's a different world
53:52
absolutely the second thing necessary is uh to prove nobility uh to have
53:59
also the idea patented which is i think mandatory it's not something that's it's really necessary and then
54:06
would be the right time to start picking up the phone and starting calling you and the team at
54:12
ini to see if you can do something together absolutely absolutely yeah
54:17
we are open for all new projects and really very happy uh to support new scientists and
54:25
innovative ideas karel and know that you have also other meetings uh
54:30
after our session thank you very much for your time and for your interesting and amazing
54:36
insights and all the best to you and the eye and eye team thank you very much christiane and see
54:42
you next time see you next time have a great day bye bye thanks for listening
54:48
please please share the podcast and make sure you have subscribed have a great day