EP 143: Jordi Ferrer Rendé - Is Healthcare Destroying the Planet? The Shocking Truth About CO2 Emissions

Artificial intelligence is revolutionizing healthcare, but what if the real danger lies in the industry's carbon footprint?

Despite healthcare’s purpose of saving lives, the industry contributes up to 10% of CO2 emissions in developed countries. Can patient care and sustainability go hand in hand, or are we risking the planet's health for human survival?

In this episode, Jordi Ferrer Rendé, Investment Director at Ship2B Ventures, reveals why healthcare's environmental impact is often overlooked and how intentional, impact-driven investing can reshape the future.

🎙️ What's in the Episode:

1️⃣ The Alarming Environmental Cost of Healthcare: Discover how healthcare contributes to CO2 emissions and what can be done to reduce them without compromising care.

2️⃣ Preventing Problems Before They Happen: Learn how shifting investments from treatment to prevention could transform patient care and healthcare sustainability.

3️⃣ Regulation vs. Consumer Demand: Understand why Jordi believes regulators, not just consumers, will drive the necessary changes for a more sustainable future in healthcare.

👤 About Jordi Ferrer Rendé:
Jordi Ferrer Rendé is the Investment Director at Ship2B Ventures, a European impact VC firm focused on transforming healthcare for chronic patients and the elderly. With over 12 years of experience, he is passionate about driving measurable social impact alongside financial returns, particularly in the areas of healthcare sustainability.

💡 QUOTES:
 
(00:21:39) "What if we invested in prevention rather than just treating diseases after they appear?"
(00:39:12) "What if we measured healthcare’s CO2 impact? We could reduce emissions without compromising care."
(00:56:21) "Consumers are pushing for change, but real sustainability will only come through regulation."
(01:07:18) "Europe has incredible science and scientists at a very efficient cost – this is a place with huge potential."
(01:53:04) "Success isn't just about ideas, it's about staying committed even through hard times."

⏰ Timestamps:
(00:04:00) Jordi Ferrer Rendé on the Power of Impact Investing in Healthcare
(00:21:12) How the Healthcare System Prioritizes Treatment Over Prevention: A Dangerous Imbalance
(00:37:30) The Alarming Truth: Healthcare’s Massive Contribution to CO2 Emissions
(00:38:18) CO2 Emissions in Healthcare: 10% Contribution to Climate Change
(00:56:21) Consumer Demand vs. Regulatory Power: The Future of Sustainability in Healthcare
(00:58:59) How Investors Can Catalyze Sustainability in Healthcare
(01:08:33) Europe as a Hub for Healthcare Innovation: Untapped Potential
(01:33:00) Purpose-Driven Teams: Why Belief in the Mission Ensures Long-Term Success
(01:43:06) Intentionality in Impact Investing: The Key to Understanding Founders and Their Purpose
(02:02:41) Essential Advice for Aspiring Healthcare Investors from Jordi Ferrer Rendé

If you’re ready to uncover the hidden environmental costs of healthcare and explore how impact investing can create a more sustainable future, this episode is a must-watch. Subscribe, comment, and share to help us bring more valuable insights from leaders like Jordi Ferrer Rendé.

👀 Stay Tuned: Watch the entire episode to discover how healthcare can be transformed by focusing on prevention, sustainability, and impactful investments.

Transcript

00:00:00:16 - 00:00:29:21
Christian Soschner
Did you know that health care contributes up to 10% of CO2 emissions in developed countries? What if the health care sector was one of the largest contributors to climate change? These are just a few of the urgent questions we will explore today. Imagine a health care system where sustainability isn't an afterthought, but a core priority.

00:00:29:21 - 00:00:44:18
Christian Soschner
In this episode, we tackled the alarming disconnect between patient care and environmental responsibility, revealing how investing in prevention and sustainability could reshape the future of health care.

00:00:44:20 - 00:00:59:06
Christian Soschner
This conversation dives deep into one of the most critical issues CEOs, investors and policymakers are facing today. Can we improve patient outcomes without harming the planet?

00:00:59:06 - 00:01:31:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
what if we started just measuring the CO2? I mean, I'm not even talking about decreasing or, you know, taking action, but just measuring. Why is the CO2 impact just. But but I'm convinced that only by measuring what's, the impact we would immediately find easy ways to reduce them by a good chunk without without, affecting at all at the care, level.

00:01:31:05 - 00:01:48:23
Christian Soschner
Too often, solutions are developed without fully understanding the problem. But what if founders deeply understood the users before creating a product? And what if success wasn't just about ideas, but about staying committed through the toughest times

00:01:48:23 - 00:02:17:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And this is why I'm also I, I highly, value the Stanford by design concept, which is exactly this. Right. It's exactly going out there to them, clinical setting, being in contact with patients, being in contact with clinicians and then, finding the solution and, and then once, once we know how the solution should do, like then we will we'll put together the team, the right team to do that.

00:02:17:02 - 00:02:17:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But

00:02:17:06 - 00:02:29:08
Christian Soschner
In today's episode, we are joined by try Fired Up and investment director ship to P ventures and leading impact VC in Europe.

00:02:29:10 - 00:02:49:02
Christian Soschner
He brings over 12 years of experience driving health care innovation for chronic patients and elderly care. Try t will reveal how impacting Vestas are catalyzing real, measurable changes in health care and why regulation, not just consumer demand, is key to sustainability.

00:02:49:02 - 00:03:06:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
consumers are changing. These is making companies change as well. And all of a sudden companies are now more aware and and more willing to implement them to implement governments, measures and to create more responsible

00:03:06:22 - 00:03:18:08
Christian Soschner
Expect to hear how this team is transforming health care investments by not just focusing on treatment, but shifting the balance towards prevention.

00:03:18:10 - 00:03:55:00
Christian Soschner
You will learn why the environmental cost of health care is an urgent issue we must face and how regulation not just consumer demand, is still real key to driving change. Finally, we explore the future of health care investing in Europe, where innovation and sustainability will intersect to create lasting global impact. Before we dive in, don't forget to subscribe, comment and share this episode to help us grow and bring more insightful content like this to you for free.

00:03:55:02 - 00:04:01:07
Christian Soschner
Let's dive into the episode and uncover how impact investing is reshaping health care.

00:04:01:07 - 00:04:09:08
Christian Soschner
Out. It's a nice thing with some lights to allow several times recording, and then it starts to livestream and

00:04:09:08 - 00:04:26:15
Christian Soschner
we just keep rolling and talking. We have about 230 or 40 people who reacted to my invitation, and usually they watch the episode at some point. after one month, about 10,000 to 20,000 people usually watch the episodes on, LinkedIn.

00:04:26:15 - 00:04:30:09
Christian Soschner
So live streaming is really a good, good point.

00:04:31:15 - 00:04:38:23
Christian Soschner
Charlie, what? How do we spell your name correctly? You said you live in Barcelona. Is it tourist English version? And how is it in Catalan?

00:04:39:00 - 00:04:40:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It's, Jo in Germany.

00:04:40:21 - 00:04:46:17
Christian Soschner
Yes, I was a Charlie was a charity. Okay. That's why I thought it would be Claudia. The or something like this.

00:04:46:17 - 00:04:57:04
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So that would be in Spanish. But in the northeast we speak, Catalan and my name doesn't. So we don't have the. Her parents are really more similar to the French. somehow.

00:04:57:06 - 00:05:02:09
Christian Soschner
It's it is such a such a huge difference Catalan into having it Castellano, isn't it, Steve.

00:05:02:12 - 00:05:07:13
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Yeah. I don't guess they I know. Yeah. it is a different language. Yeah, it's a different language.

00:05:07:15 - 00:05:10:14
Christian Soschner
So it's Charlie, like the English pronunciation.

00:05:10:16 - 00:05:11:12
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Exactly.

00:05:11:14 - 00:05:23:05
Christian Soschner
It's it's a great name. It always reminds me. Me. I hope it's not impolite to say that's, It always reminds me of Star Trek. There was this, if I, if I think it was like the condition in Star Trek The Next Generation, it was Charlie Lafarge.

00:05:23:07 - 00:05:37:05
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Wow. No, I have never heard of it. I know there a French song for kids. which is, which the main character in he's Charlie, which is kind of funny, but. No, no, no, it's, I, I never heard of this. Okay.

00:05:37:07 - 00:05:50:19
Christian Soschner
Charlie, I'm a music fan, so I think for Star Trek Saints. this is something I did, okay? And you are currently in one of the greatest cities in the world. Barcelona.

00:05:50:21 - 00:05:56:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Yes, yes, yes, I am yes. Live in, in Barcelona. I

00:05:56:08 - 00:06:21:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
was, lucky. I mean, I was born here, so I, I think exactly the same as I say, you know, it's, it's a great city by the Mediterranean. Good weather, trying to get first to to stay there, to be innovative. also within my also within my field, I think, the city's, making great efforts to boost innovation, for both for startups and in particular, the health care sector.

00:06:21:10 - 00:06:33:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So I'm happy to be here after a year, after having lived in Amsterdam, Milan and Boston. moving back here was, not, not great at all. Actually. I wish that I got to to be back.

00:06:33:17 - 00:06:39:15
Christian Soschner
The I believe that I mean, Barcelona is such a beautiful beach and it must be amazing in summer.

00:06:39:17 - 00:06:47:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It is nice. It is nice. Yeah. Actually, I'm I'm enjoying this, currently this, during the week and this month with my family.

00:06:47:10 - 00:06:48:21
Christian Soschner
I believe that, Charlie,

00:06:48:21 - 00:06:58:16
Christian Soschner
let's look at your career. Let's talk about healthcare investing. What is the driving force behind your career in impact investing, especially in healthcare?

00:07:00:14 - 00:07:20:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I always say. So. I think my, my career has I two is is a two for career on one side I start so I an economist by training. I started my career as a financial advisor. I think one of the big four, firms. I, Deloitte that where I shaped and I contributed to what one of my natural skills, which was, analysis.

00:07:20:02 - 00:07:49:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I'm a, highly analytical person. on the other hand, I'm also a people person. I like mingling with, people, meeting new people. I'm also a very curious, person. Once I know about something, I always want to dig deeper and and know more about it. so being in an investing position is, is, or anything that's securities is, it fits very well with me because I kind of it merges both of my natural, skills.

00:07:49:24 - 00:08:18:16
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
the ones that I have also, professionally shaped, the most because after being financial advisor, I jumped into the pharma sector, the, the life science sector, actually, within different companies, within their, within the sector, always in the business development slash corporate development positions. so I'm, I think I'm making the most out of, out of my, my qualities and impact investing in particular.

00:08:18:18 - 00:08:44:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
if you don't know what came out of, basically that's to me, I was, networking. so I had a very clear intentionality to jump into an investing position either in private equity or venture capital. I happened to, meet my, my, my current bosses, the founders of, to be ventures and the way they were speaking about healthcare from their impact.

00:08:44:03 - 00:08:56:16
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And so, sounded, very much with, what I wanted to do. What is the vision I had, which is a value based healthcare vision. Right. So, so.

00:08:56:18 - 00:09:17:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
The system is broken, right? I mean, it's not no surprise everyone knows about it. Everyone speaks about it. There's not much done yet, but I think no one knows like that. The system is broken. We cannot afford it anymore. It's a system that was built for me before. I keep diseases. Now we are all living, aging, more and more and living more under chronic conditions.

00:09:17:15 - 00:09:59:21
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And it has to change. And I when I was living in Boston, I, I was lucky, to do. Well, of course, on value based healthcare. That really changed my mind. So, so this, hearing this from the impact, perspective, really, got to me. And then there's a second point that, when you when you think of income back investing your lens or the scope in which you look at things is slightly different because you position yourself or at least it seemed to be that we position ourselves with a scope that is, rather than being at the cell level or, or at the microscopic level, or at a pathology or technology

00:09:59:21 - 00:10:24:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
level, we we look at things from the person perspective, not even the patient perspective, but the person perspective. And, and beyond these, we look at those things from their planning perspective. And when you look when you change perspectives, you see things quite differently. And, and this is very interesting and this is what really got me to investing.

00:10:24:11 - 00:10:46:10
Christian Soschner
And it's an that's an amazing it's an amazing story. So you had several positions. You are not a biochemist or a biologist or chemist by training. You're coming from the economic side. And what sparked your interest in health care? I mean, coming from the economics that's down many areas in the world stable can contribute. Why did you decide to go into health care?

00:10:46:12 - 00:10:47:04
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
again, I

00:10:47:04 - 00:11:10:17
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
think it was by by by coincidence again. So I was, as I mentioned, I after graduating, I started, at, this, financial advisory position in the transaction department of a big consulting firm. at certain point, it became clear to me that I did not want to pursue a full career there. I didn't have these, analytical style skills that I wanted to keep alive.

00:11:10:19 - 00:11:40:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I wanted to pursue, a more, human, related or business related, activity. And it was just by chance that day, I met, this, person working at, these Spanish, pharmaceutical company, who, was, looking for a person with my background but wanting to, explore, or perform more business development activities.

00:11:40:09 - 00:12:09:04
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It it happened to be a pharmaceutical company. Would have been anything else. what was what got me, though, was, what? I mean, working in a sector or, an industry that has a purpose, per se. I was very inspired. And then the more I. Expanded my experience, the more I learned that, that that my knowledge was very, very limited.

00:12:09:04 - 00:12:50:17
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right. So it's it's a sector with, with extremely smart people developing, extremely cool things. I mean, very nice. It's a very innovative sector, that drives, basically that well-being of the society. these was, this was, also very inspiring. But most importantly, it's a sector that is extremely complex. And, and I do like complexity and and understanding this complexity and then trying to see how, very so how to develop products in a very expensive, way.

00:12:50:19 - 00:13:14:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
and how to bring these products to different markets. when you bring them to the markets, how do you deal with, regulators? How do you deal with, payers? How do you deal with prescribers of different stakeholders and in the end, or, or helping to the patient, which would be the user. Right. So these, these complexity, was actually, very catchy.

00:13:14:21 - 00:13:40:17
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
so, so I think I, I after two years in the sector, I decided that this was a field in which I wanted to expand my, my knowledge, because it was a, an extremely difficult one. Might, might learning more about this one. Probably I could, I could extrapolate my learnings into into other fields. But it never happened because I stayed there.

00:13:40:17 - 00:13:58:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
After these, I joined, biotechnology company. And after that, I needed to diagnostics company and kind of I got, my knowledge, got, programed from within, but within the lifetime sector and, and I would like to keep it as is moving forward to.

00:13:58:02 - 00:14:22:19
Christian Soschner
Is there anything more complex than biotech industry wise? I remember my my first touchpoint with biotech in 2006. It was a Novartis peanut. And the first investment case that they calculated was, we need about a billion to bring this thing to the to the patient. And coming from other industries, a billion is a lot of money. 2006 and €2,006.

00:14:22:21 - 00:14:28:18
Christian Soschner
let's talk about, ship to be ventures. What's your investment approach?

00:14:28:20 - 00:14:29:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So

00:14:29:02 - 00:14:57:07
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
our investment approach, as I said, we are impacting investors. we look at things that are different, with a slightly different lens, I guess, any other, impact investor? we have, mainly two verticals. We target healthcare, which is the one that I'm leading, but we also invest in climate related, products within a healthcare instead of focusing in particular, pathologies or investing in specific technologies.

00:14:57:13 - 00:15:29:09
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
We always say we are pathology and technology agnostic, and we want to invest in solutions that improve quality of life for specific, vulnerable populations or vulnerable groups that we have identified that we have identified mainly three, which are elderly people, people living under, chronically mutating or debilitating diseases and, kids pediatrics. actually, as a matter of fact, we have we are now in the process of creating a fund specific for pediatric.

00:15:29:09 - 00:15:57:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So we kind of have spun out this, pediatric target from the, the, the main fund, which I am working on, right now, which is a big social impact fund. One, and we are mainly focusing on, elderly people and, people with chronic diseases. And at the same time, we try to bring a different angle here is that, which is that these people are living in a planet, and we bring you back one health concept here.

00:15:57:22 - 00:16:38:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And and in order for these people to be healthy, there are many things that we can do. Can we look at their physical work, their health, their mental health, social health, as well as well as purpose in life, which is because there's a lot of correlation between, having purpose and health care and well-being, general. But we also try to, look at, slightly larger, scope and angle, and we also look at the climate, environment that people are living up and, and, and we do take into account, this.

00:16:38:20 - 00:17:09:07
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Particular, climate related, measurements as well within the healthcare investments. And I think this, this makes, I want you guys, this is pretty big to come back. We actually call it theory of change. we don't we don't call it thesis. we we call it our theory of change. there's a a situation, currently in the, you know, in the where we live, we have identified, specific, things we think we can contribute to changing.

00:17:09:07 - 00:17:28:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
We have defined them within our thesis, and actually, we have the current situation, the change we want to, provides. And what will be our role within this change because we kind of topic our role will be, of course, limited. But, at least we know, which top to which magnitude we can or we want to contribute to these change.

00:17:28:12 - 00:17:49:23
Christian Soschner
Big dreams are this good starting point. Just look at Elon Musk with Tesla and SpaceX. So nobody believed it's possible what he did with Space-X. I totally agree to your investment thesis. Our theory of change. Thank you. Call it. as far as I understood, what you said is you on one. And look at the macro level.

00:17:50:00 - 00:18:18:02
Christian Soschner
You look at what's going on inside people. Why do they become diseases? Why do they get sick, and how can we cure that? But also aware of that, potentially many of the risk factors are not in the body but in the environment outside the body, which was, relevant salvation. Then? when you look at these two areas, what are the big challenges in both areas that you want to take to be for funds?

00:18:18:02 - 00:18:23:04
Christian Soschner
What's a problems to you see that we need to fix?

00:18:23:06 - 00:18:23:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Wow,

00:18:23:23 - 00:18:55:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
this is a very good question. So if I if I may so. I will thinking processes that we start from them. We start from the planet. We go to the person from these two groups that I mentioned, the elderly people and people with chronic diseases. We have actually we constantly research in what are the most pressing problems, for these people, both healthcare related, but also socially related.

00:18:55:24 - 00:19:26:12
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
and then and only then, once we get into them, the disease or health care, both physical or mental health care level, then we go down to them micro level. But it's always keeping to perspective what will be the outcome in the in the let's say, the person them what are the challenges? it would be it's a nice question.

00:19:26:14 - 00:19:52:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
the first challenge would be, referring to what I said earlier, the system is outdated. I use the word the word broken earlier. It's, I would say it's outdated now. It was, established. I speak, I'm speaking now, but the European healthcare system, to some extent, the, Western health care system, also also in the U.S., although it's private, it has kind of the same, the same problems.

00:19:52:21 - 00:20:11:13
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It only activates once this disease is spread. Right. And this is, acceptable or this is good when you when most of the diseases are in an acute level, you know, you are in, then a few days after you're out of the system, not a big, cost. Hopefully you've been, you've been cured and you can continue without healthy.

00:20:11:15 - 00:20:37:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
When when most of the diseases become chronic and when the life expectancy keeps growing and growing. the system is not working anymore. And the main solution, M, is, and we all know about it is, in most of the cases, prevention, not all of the cases, but but a good chunk of it is either prevention. Early diagnosis starts before the meantime.

00:20:37:23 - 00:21:04:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
That we we're finding is that although there there are good attempts and a lot and technologies providing a lot of opportunities for improvement in prevention, the system just doesn't reward it yet. And, and and there's no money driven to watch prevention. And we are making the treatment of the after the disease more larger and larger which is good.

00:21:04:22 - 00:21:31:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
We are curing more diseases. But I wonder whether, if all or part of these efforts were put into prevention, what would be the outcome? Right? Would it, would it, would it be better than than what we're doing right now? And I think this is a challenge we're having. so it's, it's kind of the imbalance or that the, the way the payers are paying for solutions might not match them.

00:21:31:22 - 00:22:02:24
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
The, the course of the disease. Right. The maybe potentially, people could be better off in the longer term. if we were to put more effort in prevention. So why would that be the first one? The other one is very much linked to this angle, to this broader perspective. Right. So not all the solutions are in the, biology never all, all the, all the micro level or on the health care level, right.

00:22:03:01 - 00:22:30:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
There was one of them I mentioned earlier where we constantly doing research and that we think our tool and scopes of, of, of population that we want to have and, but one of the first interviews, I did to ask a physician actually was, a well-known physician, head of, ICU surgery in one of the main hospitals here in Barcelona.

00:22:30:04 - 00:22:58:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
He was some time he was actually tired. But after 30 something years of of, practicing, I asked him what what's the what's the the most disruptive innovation you've seen when practice? You know what what has been the one that has created the better outcome to the patient. And this guy said, okay, well, there's there's one thing I can clearly identify as the best innovation that has ever happened in my life.

00:22:58:10 - 00:23:11:24
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
As a as a physician. And, and this, this disruption made our, our and death rates in ICU drop in a tenfold just from that one day to another.

00:23:12:01 - 00:23:22:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And this disruption was, interestingly, it was when the, government made the use of a helmet mandatory when riding mortar bikes.

00:23:22:23 - 00:23:27:24
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So before Barcelona, a city that what about the city where there are a lot of motorbikes?

00:23:27:24 - 00:23:41:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
these, physician as a head of a surgeon out of an ICU was receiving. I few, cases per week of motorbike accidents with people were not using an accident.

00:23:41:11 - 00:24:07:07
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And most of these, accidents when at weddings. I mean where fatal, right. I think that people were not surviving these accidents after people were able to use their helmet. He was receiving the same number of accidents. But just these accidents that were not, fatal because the the the brain, the head was not injury. So they they might have affected other parts of the body beyond the legs, but these people could get out of it.

00:24:07:09 - 00:24:37:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I doubt very, much larger scope. So, so the most disrupt the thing that made his numbers, change the most was not even in the healthcare industry. And here's, also when I was talking about prevention, if if we change the scope, we are able to identify other fields that might not even be in the health care field, that can have a dramatic impact into people's lives.

00:24:37:22 - 00:24:59:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And I think this is also a challenge we have because we tend to and I myself, I mean, the same I mean, I fall into the same chart constantly and, and, and and and I see it all the time. So we are we are back to the biotech projects or whatever, which I, I keep seeing projects that are focusing in the cells and how the cells are interacting with each other and what are the effects, what these things actually you see.

00:24:59:23 - 00:25:09:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So on, so forth. And that's fine. But but if we were to theme from the theory of change from the person perspective.

00:25:09:05 - 00:25:32:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Would we still be investing so much, mining these solutions? Wouldn't we be changing a little bit? Our, our, the way we think and therefore the solutions that we want to identify to bring to that to the world. And this is the other times, I think so. So it's probably, the way that the system works. I don't know if this makes sense at all, but, but these it's, it's, it's that they

00:25:32:01 - 00:25:32:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
do.

00:25:32:17 - 00:25:50:03
Christian Soschner
I think to your question, it depends on whom you ask. To me, it makes total sense. let's dive into this prevention aspect a little bit deeper. I'm very passionate about it, and I completely agree to what I said, that, the end point is a disease, but, the causes of the disease, might be somewhere else.

00:25:50:05 - 00:26:10:03
Christian Soschner
Not the, chemistry lab. Nothing that I have. Not with the lab technicians. When you ask, biotech entrepreneur, of course. I mean, they are looking at the macro level and untested perspective on the macro level. but you mentioned what they described with the surgeon. I mean, a policy change basically, affected the outcome of the patients tremendously.

00:26:10:03 - 00:26:29:00
Christian Soschner
And I think also when we look at prevention, this is the case. However, the problem, whenever I tried to address this aspect, from the investment landscape, the problem simply was and how to turn it into a product that we can sell so that we can create returns. Because investment is also about making returns and it's not a charity.

00:26:29:02 - 00:26:50:02
Christian Soschner
And the investors I talked to always said, I mean, look for we can simplify to simplify solving. We can produce a pill, we can sell it at scale and we can create returns. So we can invest in the next generation. When we suggest and support lifestyle changes, we are in the area of philanthropy because it's usually consulting. You can scale it.

00:26:50:02 - 00:27:14:05
Christian Soschner
It's very difficult and it's not an investment case. It's important, but it's not. On the scope of the biotech investors. My question to you now is how do you see this area of prevention? Where do you see investment cases in this area? That's you as an investor can make an impact and also create returns. Or, is your fund set up innovative to say, okay, we don't care about the returns.

00:27:14:06 - 00:27:16:22
Christian Soschner
We want to create impact.

00:27:16:24 - 00:27:17:14
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So, our

00:27:17:14 - 00:27:41:05
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
fund is that does care about returns, and we are impact investors, but we have, we want to act as catalysts between, regular investors and impact investing. And these means that the money that we aim to attract is money that, is looking for competitive returns, like improved returns. So we do look for returns as well as the impact.

00:27:41:05 - 00:28:04:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Actually, it's at the same at the same level, not just on one hand on the on the other hand, we are, as I said, we are technology agnostic. So we can invest and we do invest in any space within the life sciences sector, but also add like say sector. And I would say we invest roughly two thirds within the next sector.

00:28:04:10 - 00:28:19:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And, and these would mean, biotech, medtech, diagnostics, even digital health. But also we have one third, roughly one third. And that can be invested. The, how do we.

00:28:19:12 - 00:28:55:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Prevention is, is our, one of our main drivers within our theory of change, within our thesis. we do have some investments, that that around prevention. But I do agree the business model is not there yet. I think technology wise, especially, digital technologies can be catalyzes and can be and cancers of of, prevention modern, modern or even monitoring modern early diagnosis.

00:28:55:20 - 00:29:48:16
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Mother. I thought I'd scale and Adar almost have a marginally zero cost, but the this the the the business case is not there yet, and I usually compare it to to 20 years ago when all these, big tech companies where, using data and were serving users without a clear business model that their case was generating the data and getting the they didn't understand understanding people, and only 15, 20 years after they were created, there then business models were created around, I think I mean, healthcare potentially will will be a similar case.

00:29:48:16 - 00:30:29:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right. But the thing is that we're not even there yet, meaning that we still have to create this, or to see these platforms that can generate data being my biomarkers being whatever, probably at, I do not know, return level or I thought that without a clear business model and once someone has all of these access to these consolidated data and can correlate and can, really drive meaningful outcomes out of it, then we would see business models that probably don't exist just today that we shift towards these prevention months.

00:30:29:20 - 00:30:48:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
but nowadays it's, it's, difficult to identify, these projects. And we are looking at them. I back I thought more, let's say with a narrower scope than than what? what need to happen in order to have these, implemented then, you know, mainstream

00:30:48:02 - 00:30:49:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
level.

00:30:49:04 - 00:31:12:23
Christian Soschner
Let's look at the data side. You mentioned. The data is important to identify biomarkers and the digital space might provide some solutions here. can you give more detail to these efforts? which solutions do you see these days? And, how can generating data help scientists understand how this is going to develop?

00:31:13:00 - 00:31:13:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Yeah, I

00:31:13:08 - 00:31:34:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
think I think there are two, two side. There are three main fields, probably more that I see or what we see I actually do. And then there's the three main fields in which, digital technologies are helping scientists. The first of all is, in drug development, which, by the way, is not what our fields of expertise of interest.

00:31:34:10 - 00:31:53:11
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But but we do see a lot of I mean, when we do our research and during our different we do see a lot of, a lot of, opportunity here because, as you mentioned at the beginning with your Novartis, project, there could be a lot. So these could gain a lot of efficiency. Right? Dramatically cut costs.

00:31:53:13 - 00:32:35:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It actually cost their cut, time to market. and it could, potentially lead to, to better, treatments, faster, cheaper maybe. So. So this is definitely one of the fields. The other one is getting efficient at that. Provide more efficient at the provider level rather than at the at the treatment level, at the provider level, helping, health care centers, helping radiologists, helping physicians, helping nurses, helping remote care, all these things, they could make the system more efficient.

00:32:35:12 - 00:33:22:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Therefore, we could reach more people at a lower rate with fewer providers, which is actually one of. And the last big trend is actually one that is, maybe not the most, sexy right now in terms of investment, which is would be the, the digital therapies. Right. That, either through, cognitive behavioral therapies or through other type of, of, therapies that technologies might be in in some cases, might be a good solution for, specific pathologies in terms of having a decent, twin treatment.

00:33:22:04 - 00:33:52:21
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I mean, probably at at levels that are equivalent to current pharmacological treatments, some in some cases better, but also in terms of accessibility, you could, scale these treatments basically anywhere in the world, like a, almost zero car. So you could, very easily reach rural areas, or areas with, difficult access, and, and, and solve problems that, that currently unsolved.

00:33:52:21 - 00:34:20:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So this would be the third leg, you know, which I see a lot of opportunities. It is again, I think there has been kind of, now maybe these third leg is not the one that, I am seeing more enthusiastic, in from from the investment perspective. but precisely as impact investors, it is third one that we are putting more efforts to invest because, we do we do believe that there's opportunity here and we want to we want to

00:34:20:15 - 00:34:22:00
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
support it.

00:34:22:02 - 00:34:45:06
Christian Soschner
That doesn't make sense. I think the big question is, do we understand diseases? Really? Do we really understand diseases? Are do we like data? And it was a panel discussion in 2019, where Christopher de Souza, an investor from the United States, said, in the past we made decisions based on 200 or 300 data points and, tracks were approved.

00:34:45:08 - 00:35:08:16
Christian Soschner
And to prod stand the example to to sentiment. And now look at Fitbits, a text entity to sleep study. And he said have millions of data points. And then he raised the question and said, just think about it, what it means for drug development. When we could generate so many data points and what that means for the scientists, 200 data points compared to millions of billions of data points.

00:35:08:18 - 00:35:21:06
Christian Soschner
how much, how much further are we on this journey? You you said that you have more insight into the different area. How is the data generation, evolving in in biotech?

00:35:21:08 - 00:35:21:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It is

00:35:21:15 - 00:35:48:07
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
evolving. it is, probably still in these in its infancy. there's, there are challenges. I mean, it depends on the field. Some, some fields are, using even advanced computing methods and are generating a million, some millions of data points to identify, from diagnosis to drug development to, to enhance and to and to provide better, better solutions.

00:35:48:09 - 00:36:22:04
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
out there, I think at the provider level, though, there's, an issue of interoperability of of data. Data, all right, is still in silos. And, and he's, difficult to, to create and and databases are very hard and costly to generate. And, and they should evolve in this direction. They, they should become, operable, interchangeable, should become easily accessible to everyone.

00:36:22:06 - 00:36:30:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And, and, and I think it should have all of these way and I, I'm, I'm, I think it's important this

00:36:30:18 - 00:36:31:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
way.

00:36:31:24 - 00:36:50:08
Christian Soschner
Yeah. It's good, it's good. It's good to hear. so thanks for go beyond everyone chance. that's the most going on. it's bio Europe. You were at the panel talking about sustainability and health care, and you're very outspoken about the health care's environmental impact. And this was also the reason why I said, come on my podcast.

00:36:50:08 - 00:37:06:24
Christian Soschner
I have not five, but this, before before I, soil panel. And my question to you is, in your opinion, what's the most alarming facts in the health care system? When we look at the environmental impacts of the entire system?

00:37:07:01 - 00:37:07:09
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
That's a

00:37:07:09 - 00:37:33:04
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
great question. Thank you for bringing it up. I, I think I like this topic. We should speak more about this topic. the most alarming fact is that. Is that when we speak about about sustainability measures and climate change, or even when we speak about impact investing, ESG, whatever, investing or. Yes, you sector usually, usually.

00:37:33:04 - 00:38:05:00
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And I'm seeing I think it's changing fast but it's still most of the cases health care. Stakeholders in general don't feel, accountable or don't feel like the climate issue is, is their business because, you know, we are in the healthcare business and health care is about improving people's lives. We have already creating impact. Right?

00:38:05:00 - 00:38:31:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So so why should we bother? Why should we care? You know, we are already contributing to a better world. Well, I agree first and foremost, I do agree that it turns out that in developed countries, the health care sector is contributing 84% of the total emissions, 4 to 5%, depending on the source, roughly 4%, of total emissions on a yearly basis in developed economies.

00:38:31:22 - 00:38:57:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And it's up to 10% if you, calculated by indirect waste. So it turns out that the health care sector is contributing massively to, CO2 emissions and to and to climate. And so it is our business. Of course. Of course. our, our business is about, improving people's lives. Of course. And this should be the primary outcome.

00:38:57:03 - 00:38:58:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But

00:38:58:23 - 00:39:30:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
what if we started just measuring the CO2? I mean, I'm not even talking about decreasing or, you know, taking action, but just measuring. Why is the CO2 impact just. But but I'm convinced that only by measuring what's, the impact we would immediately find easy ways to reduce them by a good chunk without without, affecting at all at the care, level.

00:39:30:22 - 00:39:50:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right. so I think it's something that we should speak about more and more. And this is why we and you very kindly maintain this, this, session, like. Like you did. Right. First, do not harm, which is the main principle medicine. You don't want to harm the patient, but you don't want to have the the the plan either.

00:39:50:06 - 00:40:17:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right. So we should think about it again. I thought I thought different I thought different perspectives. So yeah, probably the most alarming thing is that, that, usually people don't, don't feel, involved with it and don't feel comfortable with it. And part of what we would like to do is to draw the attention, of, of the, you know, investment decisions that we ought to make for you, since I don't have business motives, depend on un, dispose of those.

00:40:17:03 - 00:40:39:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I don't have a lot of the the APIs that are produced within the pharmaceutical industry are not even produced in Europe because, you know, they are polluting. I mean, there are certain things, that that it would be good if, if we just had them in mind. You know, I'm not even talking about taking action, but just by having them in mind, we we would certainly look at things like it would be

00:40:39:01 - 00:40:40:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
different.

00:40:40:12 - 00:41:14:18
Christian Soschner
Now go to the Ukraine. first to no harm. You mentioned this in the questionnaire. I immediately picked it up because I think this is such, such a great statement. Charlie Munger in his book, I'm just currently reading guy's book. It's up with Charlie's Almanac, where his greatest speeches are, collected. And it was, I think, in 2003 that he said, we have today the problem that people don't think about second or third thought of how the consequences of their actions, they just see what they're doing and see the first order consequences and first to no harm, in my opinion, is exactly expressed.

00:41:14:19 - 00:41:37:05
Christian Soschner
Instead, let's think about what consequences to be produced. And I was not aware that the health care contribution to global CO2 emissions is 4 to 10%. Why is there such a variety in the data is that on one hand it's 4 to 5%, but when you calculate it indirectly, it's 10%. Yeah. Can you explain it a little bit more.

00:41:37:07 - 00:41:38:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So it

00:41:38:06 - 00:42:07:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
depends on the source. again, but it's basically if you, if, if you calculate directly, what the healthcare and stakeholders are producing would be roughly 4 to 5%, again, depending on their source. If you calculate indirectly. So there are three scopes of of CO2 emission. Right. So you have the direct the then all the economies that works indirectly for these economy.

00:42:07:03 - 00:42:22:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And then there's even a third round out of it. So if you take then the, the direct and also of the economy, then that is around the healthcare economy. If you take these two you will find that the 10% is that it makes

00:42:22:08 - 00:42:23:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
sense.

00:42:23:10 - 00:42:46:04
Christian Soschner
I yeah, I think so I think so. So what we can say is that the health care system is a, massive contributor to global CO2 emissions, and it's not thus addressing when we look at the future, could you paint a picture of a truly sustainable biopharma industry, but key changes, in your opinion, are necessary?

00:42:46:07 - 00:43:17:13
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
We will definitely go that route. and this is why we are a team to be ventures. we are taking into consideration these because we believe ten years from now, regulators, patients, providers, the whole system will require, some type of, of, CO2 emissions control, Looking forward and this beyond ten years, I am I am seeing and there are already a few cases.

00:43:17:15 - 00:43:46:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
so on on one hand, I, I, I'm seeing an I expect business models more dependent on a silicon circular economy. So more or less disposables and, and more reuse materials and business with businesses related to that and sterilization and refurbishment and these kind of things on one side and on the other side, I think we will be more careful in the sourcing of real materials as well.

00:43:46:04 - 00:44:22:12
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And we're starting to see some, some examples, in there. But but probably just as other companies in other sectors are doing, pharmaceutical companies and the healthcare sector general, we have we have to trace their CO2 emissions from their sources, from their from their, providers to their customers. And just by tracing them, there again, we will see, new opportunities of doing things slightly, you know, taking care of their of the CO2 emissions.

00:44:22:14 - 00:44:29:12
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I probably a similar costs. And we will see this shift for sure. But I'm sure.

00:44:29:14 - 00:44:39:24
Christian Soschner
Now the movement of goods from UTS to all the while to the states, the amount of money is good because, to, humanity started collaborating on a global scale.

00:44:40:01 - 00:45:00:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
for instance, I mean, you see big tech companies, they say, you know, 70% of the materials of these, device are made out of recycled materials. How would providers, audited and be fulfilled with these and these and these, this and that and these good practices, so on, so forth. Pharma, large pharma companies are starting to have these programs.

00:45:00:20 - 00:45:13:11
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I think they will just become mainstream. And even regulators starting will start demanding demand for these, these type of measures. And, and these will make it, it would make the whole industry, more cautious about

00:45:13:11 - 00:45:14:07
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
it.

00:45:14:09 - 00:45:32:21
Christian Soschner
How much room for improvement do you see in the logistics? I mean, currently a lot of, products are produced in China and India and shipped around the world several times. So how can it can be really changed the supply chains and still be, cheap for the patient?

00:45:32:23 - 00:45:33:11
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I'd say

00:45:33:11 - 00:45:43:04
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
that's beyond what, beyond my knowledge.

00:45:43:06 - 00:46:06:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Yeah. I think these, really are overpasses. what we are doing, I seem to be and and and the type of, deals and the type of research that we're currently doing, I seem to be. I'm. I'm. Now, I've, I'm thinking of very punctual cases that, that have, brought to my attention that they.

00:46:06:02 - 00:46:10:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I haven't recently.

00:46:10:24 - 00:46:40:21
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Though. But so speaking again about the about the about this the supply chain if, if, regulators and companies and and ultimately patients and users are serious about about, having these traceability down to the source. There should be room room for improvement there. But this is just too many processes and and and for I'm sorry I cannot provide that clear I said to be said this question not not my not my

00:46:40:21 - 00:46:41:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
right.

00:46:41:10 - 00:46:54:05
Christian Soschner
It's it's just it's just an ongoing conversation. We don't we don't needs to get the data. But I just can imagine that there is a lot of room for improvement in optimizing supply chains to drive emissions globally down. It's just without having data really attached.

00:46:54:05 - 00:46:54:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But

00:46:54:18 - 00:46:56:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
logic, logic, logic

00:46:56:15 - 00:46:59:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
would say that there's a huge room for improvement there, cuz.

00:46:59:20 - 00:47:02:18
Christian Soschner
It would make sense to look towards that direction.

00:47:02:20 - 00:47:21:04
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It would definitely make sense towards that. But I should. Absolutely. As a matter of fact, in our time at The vertical, we are looking into these type of, of, getting more efficiency. We think logistics, not healthcare related exclusively, but also Brody. Yeah.

00:47:21:06 - 00:47:47:00
Christian Soschner
But when. Yeah. I mean, I think for an economist, the problem then is always okay. When we change the supply chain, there is an example of some some initiatives going on in the chip in the chip industry to stop factories in Europe and in the United States that it's the chips are not shipped around the world again. But then there is always the argument, yes, but it will drive the prices up and then we lose our competitive edge.

00:47:47:02 - 00:48:05:16
Christian Soschner
What's your perception? Active. when you look at the biopharma industry, pharmaceutical industry and also the other industries we work with, how can they use it as a competitive advantage? Let's come from the positive side. When we change the systems, how can we still be competitive and use it as an advantage?

00:48:05:18 - 00:48:06:14
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So there are two things

00:48:06:14 - 00:48:31:05
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
here. And one of them we have been speaking about it. I've noted that throughout the whole the whole conversation, which is that there's a lot of efficiency, potential efficiency to be gained within the sector. It's a high cost, high margin sector that, for instance, in, in the US, only, 25% of the healthcare costs are driven by administrative tasks.

00:48:31:05 - 00:49:02:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right? So if we were to reduce these talk 15 or 10%, I mean, there's a huge improvement there. Then we spoke about, these, digital, technologies or these new technologies that can potentially, improve the, the drug development costs and interfaces. Right. So, so we will gain efficiencies for sure. so that there might be room for a reorganization of costs.

00:49:02:22 - 00:49:37:14
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
That can be especially if we redefine costs. So, There are some initiatives that that, suggest or that invite companies to include environmental, environmental costs within their books, within their financial books. If, this is in front seats, there are some attempts, that are being that are out there, some of them better than others, some of them more, can you say, than others?

00:49:37:16 - 00:49:44:05
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But what if we start implementing this all of a sudden, all of a sudden?

00:49:44:07 - 00:50:18:17
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
You might have cheap products that would become very expensive, because we will account for a huge CO2 emission cost or desperation, customer or environmental cost to them. And then. And then these companies might, have to be additional taxes or might have to, be penalized somehow. Right. And this eventually will make this transition towards local production. I'm just making these case up of it to look at production, for instance.

00:50:18:19 - 00:50:45:16
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
more economically interesting because it, it would, it will represent, an economic savings as well. And we're seeing these for instance, I mean, when we see, sugar based, drinks. Right. How can this be that these, drinks can be active as water? Or how can water be at some, in some cases more expensive than sugar based drinks?

00:50:45:20 - 00:51:09:16
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Well, if we start, taxing accordingly or we, we start requiring, the prices to these drinks according to the actual effect they provide to the people, and they really become more expensive than we might have, you know, these different, behavior, both from consumers and also from their, their manufacturers.

00:51:09:18 - 00:51:33:03
Christian Soschner
Now, it's an interesting development, especially when we look at other drinks. I think from, from the health care perspective, sugary drinks, might at some point to the problem that we see today with obesity, diabetes and all the diseases that are connected to that. But it's the cheapest drink. Basically, whenever I go somewhere, shopping for candy.

00:51:33:05 - 00:51:47:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Is the cheapest thing. It's the cheapest food, or it's related to social, to, to the social and economic, determinants. And how can it be that, that, the, the cheapest food is the most unhealthy.

00:51:47:03 - 00:52:05:11
Christian Soschner
But isn't it that but isn't it. I mean, but when you look, when I come back to the supply chain perspective, isn't that amazing? It's a complex product. The sugary drink is not a simple product. It's not like, sort of tea or just water. It's complex. It needs an industry. It's manufactured, it needs logistics, it needs distributions.

00:52:05:13 - 00:52:24:01
Christian Soschner
And usually when I just follow, my gut feeling will say, okay, this must have a high price. But the industry was capable of trying to price this down to make it the cheapest product development. It's logical that people buy it. It's done. So this is just what I want to talk to, to point out. It's, maybe I was in data supply chains.

00:52:24:01 - 00:52:46:00
Christian Soschner
There's a lot of room for improvement. We just have not thought about it. When we look at the unhealthy food on the market, it's cheap, it's accessible, it's accessible. It's it's abandoned. It's everywhere. And, the supply chain could organize it and can be areas like health care, although we have to concern it might price the prices but say, okay, why don't we think about it?

00:52:46:02 - 00:52:47:11
Christian Soschner
How do you see that?

00:52:47:13 - 00:52:47:21
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Have I

00:52:47:21 - 00:53:17:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
have I mean it's a great angle. I, I fully agree I fully agree with you. I mean, it's about determining, logistically how we can, how we can improve things. Probably there's apparently something with that, with health care, right, that there's a way of doing, things, massively at the very cheap cost. And then, all of a sudden, many, many players, within this, field align so they can help each other, they can find each other, they can make things cheaper, more accessible to everyone.

00:53:17:24 - 00:53:30:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And the end, these are the ones that are, winning. Now. I think it's because, we are, just, we are, only required regarding from the financial perspective, yeah,

00:53:30:10 - 00:53:32:12
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
we're very healthy.

00:53:32:14 - 00:53:51:00
Christian Soschner
I think it would help and policymakers start, fitting in the higher order consequences. I mean, and the standard in the 70s, for example. I mean, I live I grew up in Austria, and, we still in the aftermath of the Second World War, I have close to 50 now. And when you look at the tales from my parents and grandpa, it was basically scarcity.

00:53:51:00 - 00:54:13:06
Christian Soschner
So they had the problem when they did not rebuild their houses in the 40s and 50s, they would either starve to death or freeze to death, basically. I mean, it's just a mountainous area in Austria, so it's really covered. from that perspective, I understand the, the, the rise of industrial food in the 70s. You need to feed people.

00:54:13:08 - 00:54:36:16
Christian Soschner
You need to provide cheap food to people. But now we are 30, 40, 50 years later and we see the consequences. and still is the cheapest foods on the market and lots from, from your fan to center to fans operates in both areas, macro into macro level. But initiatives to you see on the market to to flip that so that really gets make systemic changes.

00:54:36:16 - 00:54:42:09
Christian Soschner
Is there anything going on or is it still just a blind spot that there are?

00:54:42:11 - 00:54:42:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
there

00:54:42:19 - 00:55:14:17
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
are big chance, first one is that consumers people are demanding these people are and we're seeing, are willing to pay a little bit more certain people are willing to pay a little bit more for health care for either healthier and or more environmentally responsible products. And we're seeing this everywhere. And this is becoming also part of the the selling proposition of of several rats.

00:55:14:17 - 00:55:16:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So

00:55:16:01 - 00:55:33:21
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
consumers are changing. These is making companies change as well. And all of a sudden companies are now more aware and and more willing to implement them to implement governments, measures and to create more responsible

00:55:33:21 - 00:55:49:00
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
products. Now we are seeing, companies that are offering larger product warranties instead of changing them. They're offering, larger warranties and large hand repair, through you back services, out of consumer, changes, basically.

00:55:49:02 - 00:56:21:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But there's one important driver here which are regulators and governments, which, can, dramatically affect and impact the way industries are making decisions. And, and we are seeing we need 20, 30 objectives. And we've, you know, the different objectives that that mainly develop that countries are European countries, are leaving are leaning that are helping these, these transition.

00:56:21:18 - 00:57:02:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And just as the parallelism you meet I mean, 40 or 50 years ago that the problem was, was the lack of food and people were facing are starving, as you said, and the whole, system, the whole economy aligned itself to make sure that, every single person in the world could have, food. you know, I talked at a very reduced price, so, but they actually, and because the humankind is a very smart, is a very smart, being, potentially now that we are in the opposite, position, I in the position in which we do have food that it's about now, having good food so we

00:57:02:08 - 00:57:28:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
can have better lives. And we used for, for some reason we're speaking about food that we could speak about, but, medicine, treatments, anything, health care. we will find our way towards that. Right. It's it's about time and about aligning stakeholders and and to me, the there are these two main, main stakeholders which are people and regulators

00:57:28:06 - 00:57:28:12
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
now.

00:57:28:12 - 00:58:03:23
Christian Soschner
Absolutely. I mean, regulation is not always a bad thing. There is a good parts to it. And when you look at how Europe evolved since 1945, I mean, basically Europe was completely destroyed after World War two and we solved so many problems. And I think we can do that up. However, some people think that investors are always the bad ones who just try to, play the system and say, oh, I when you look at social media, it's the system is rigged in and of the rich and the richest gets get richer and they just rip off everybody and destroy the environment.

00:58:04:00 - 00:58:24:12
Christian Soschner
Let's talk about the role of investors in sustainability. What role do you see for investors in that game. So that they also make a positive change. And we step away from these old, industrial investment cases. It's obvious, I think, that the, the white fat man with a cigar, the biggest. It's, What foreign investor do you see?

00:58:24:12 - 00:58:47:11
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
That's a very interesting thing. So within impact there, impact investing has three pillars. It's intentionality. And we spoke about theory of change also, by the way the intentionality of the of them. Okay. Founders or back investigators. there's additionality and also of course additionality of the solutions clinically trying to force but also additionality. I think of investors.

00:58:47:13 - 00:59:13:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And then there's the measurement, which is how are we tracing, these, these potential changes. So the way we believe impact investors can provide additional this is, and I think I said it as well, is that said, by acting as catalyze or by, by acting as, investors that act as, any other investor that can co-invest with any other investor.

00:59:13:17 - 00:59:55:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And basically they, they make decisions considering these, these things. Right. These this key, things and bringing them, to the table on the, on the, on the advisory boards or on these, you know, at a company levels, sharing this information with other investors. hopefully having, financially successful cases that, also make people, change their minds, in terms of their that there that there's no necessarily a trade off or a large trade trade off between an impact company or a or a purposeful company and a financially successful company.

00:59:55:03 - 01:00:23:05
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And we see ourselves as a, as, catalysts in this sense. so we see ourselves as catalysts for the money that we are able to raise and to and to catalyze within. we think these investment criteria and we see ourselves as far as, catalysts with our, co-investors, because at the end of the day, and they probably see that we are equally looking at financial return just as them.

01:00:23:05 - 01:00:52:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But in addition to these, we are considering some other criteria that, you know, might or might not inspire them. But but there's there's room for everyone here. And ultimately we are investing. We are excuse me, influencing, founders and startups in the way that they they now know that there's another type of investor. They can knock the doors hard, but there's some checks that they have to that they have to feel and they start preparing towards those, towards those checks.

01:00:52:03 - 01:01:12:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So, I think it's, it's we are in the very early stages, this for sure. Impact investing within is already, evolving a lot and can be fast and, and will evolve and will ultimately will become mainstream there. So that would be, a point. I probably we're not far from there in which investors will not call themselves impact.

01:01:12:22 - 01:01:26:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right. They we call I don't know, it would be much more specialized and and it would be already incorporated within, within the criteria. But I at this moment probably we are, I think a little bit that's loudspeakers and

01:01:26:01 - 01:01:27:14
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
facilitators.

01:01:27:16 - 01:01:49:07
Christian Soschner
Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. I think investors are a very important catalyst in the industries, making things happen and challenging founders to think about, finding customers to think about driving cost, maybe brought the example of the food industry before. And I think this is what investors think. Even Musk is one of the best examples, in my opinion.

01:01:49:09 - 01:01:56:03
Christian Soschner
Also with Tesla, with our team, I don't think that electric vehicles and solar would be where it is today cost wise.

01:01:56:05 - 01:02:06:11
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Exactly. Investment. Yeah, I fully agree with you. Electric vehicles where I not think before he, before his vision. Right. That now it's just that means.

01:02:06:13 - 01:02:33:00
Christian Soschner
I think that I mean, the first time I can't remember I think it was probably 2004 or 5, six, seven or something. Right. But I read about Elon Musk. I think many people asked about him. I mean, electric vehicles, space X, it's just, not possible. It's, too far in the future. But he found investors. He found them, and I read his bio biography, and he found the right people who backed him and believed in his entrepreneurial spirit.

01:02:33:04 - 01:02:50:08
Christian Soschner
Believed that he will find customers, that he will evolve the technology and that it will drive costs down. And I think, in my opinion, Dallas, it must be interesting to understand the thinking of the investors who backed him, but I don't think he would be where he is today without, investing capital.

01:02:50:10 - 01:02:58:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
That I actually I fully agree with that with you. And I think it's a great example. I mean, it could be very inspiring as well, for our industry.

01:02:58:05 - 01:03:12:00
Christian Soschner
When we talk about the ecosystems, before we dive a little bit deeper into your into your fund, you lived in the United States and in Europe. And it's just my personal bias, my personal opinion. whenever I look at Europe, it seems like the,

01:03:12:02 - 01:03:12:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It's.

01:03:12:11 - 01:03:31:16
Christian Soschner
A desert. It's like basically investment capital is still. That's in Europe compared to the United States. Exact. Right? Of course. you experienced both ecosystems. How do you see both ecosystems? What are the advantages and disadvantages when we think about impact investing and investing in general?

01:03:31:18 - 01:03:32:13
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So, Amy.

01:03:32:13 - 01:03:38:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Okay. Interesting.

01:03:38:04 - 01:04:14:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It's the same name for different industries. I would say we we are, we are. okay. So first and foremost, venture capital, and even venture capital investing was born out of the US, which is, free market, a very large one, mostly private, that, has the mentality of, of innovation and, in which capital is invested towards innovation at that.

01:04:14:18 - 01:04:46:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I thought much larger, stake or share, of total wealth than it is in Europe. So we are talking about it's also island of, second and third opportunities. people have a different mentality. so long story short, it's that it's, it's a country of possibilities in which it is if you have the right product or the right company, you can scale relatively fast at that.

01:04:46:18 - 01:05:15:13
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Very high valuations. Europe, is is slightly culturally different in terms of, in terms of first and foremost, it's, it's not, such a scalable market because it's very fragmented, not only at the border regulation level, but also at the cultural level. It's it's, quite, fragmented. It's a, it has, history or soft, looking, local.

01:05:15:15 - 01:05:48:21
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It's, it's a market that has, higher, regulations and where web has been historically distributed differently in different buckets, where historically, innovation or let's say alternative investments have not been, so popular. I think the U.S and in which, I would say the main, investor, you know, mission is, the European Union through its, different, vehicles.

01:05:48:21 - 01:06:12:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right. And, and of course, and of course, to market that is, that is, not as mature, I think, I think the U.S so so this makes the whole, ecosystem, I mean, just just different and we cannot apply and the same criteria in both markets, we simply cannot

01:06:12:06 - 01:06:16:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
luckily, we are, in the

01:06:16:02 - 01:06:36:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
process of, of shaping and defining and, and this sector in Europe is getting more and more mature with more and more success cases. We've had more and more alignment of, different stakeholders. luckily, also in healthcare in particular, there are there has been a lot of, innovation.

01:06:36:22 - 01:07:08:12
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
There's, no an amazing and incredible, level of science and scientists at a, at a very efficient, cost, which is very attractive. So I think we are in a place, that has a huge part that, in which that that the potential of, of, of scientific healthcare innovation is, is really, really good. And I and I think we know this and, and, and we are getting organized as an industry in these ways.

01:07:08:14 - 01:07:38:00
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
The the the bad thing of these is once, companies or projects get at the decent level, then the, the, the best scenario almost the, the, the only scenario is to move them, to the US, right. Or they get acquired. in, in most cases, if already had, you know, a large majority of cases, by, by U.S. companies and then they get, developed and implemented there.

01:07:38:02 - 01:07:59:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
hopefully this will change as well. Hopefully we will get materials and understand we will be able to get, more companies, or retain projects larger. in Europe hopefully, so that this, this trend change expected. but at this moment, I think we are, a great source of origination and we have to take advantage of this.

01:07:59:05 - 01:08:13:16
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And, and then unfortunately, I so at some point, we all know that for in order for the projects to be, successful, financially successful, successful, we have to look at, the U.S. as a market.

01:08:13:18 - 01:08:14:16
Christian Soschner
I agree to everything

01:08:14:16 - 01:08:34:07
Christian Soschner
that you say. So I can't do anything. I just don't understand why. Where where Europe lost its edge and have probably suffered several podcast episodes because it was really easy to understand what changed and, how we can shift it to the better. I think it's undeniable that in many industries, the United States just skyrocketed and, left Europe behind.

01:08:34:09 - 01:08:58:03
Christian Soschner
When I started, economics in the mid 90s to late 90s. it was the time when Europe deregulated, when the countries, really kicked off the European Union as we know it today. And it looked to me when I think the great innovations spec that automotive, to European carmakers, but I think.

01:08:58:05 - 01:09:00:11
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Top its, top.

01:09:00:13 - 01:09:31:00
Christian Soschner
globally the mobile industry top level science always when you look at also the US companies, I mean to have many products that originated in Europe in the pipeline and to enter has Kazakstan pharma sector also thrived in Europe. And it looked to me like from after the year 2000 to become barrel crash. It's I don't know that the European Union developed and evolved, but now I see this huge gap between the United States and Europe.

01:09:31:02 - 01:09:54:05
Christian Soschner
and as far as I understand, you see a similar gap. So that's, venture capital, investment capital and also moving innovation forward. entrepreneurs in Europe have a little bit of a disadvantage comparing them to us entrepreneurs and many European companies then must relocate to the United States if they want to go into a see series, the IPO.

01:09:54:05 - 01:10:12:08
Christian Soschner
We can't do that in Europe. When you could change that and you could wave a magic wand and, tomorrow everything would be better. What would be the three measures that you would recommend implementing?

01:10:12:10 - 01:10:18:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Wow.

01:10:18:18 - 01:10:49:00
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Well, the first measure would be, a unified health care market. Be, I mean, even at that. Even so, even even at that, let's say the price of go to market, level, first and foremost with unified data usage, with, unified coverage. I mean, the whole thing together, not not not just, you know, the regulatory approval.

01:10:49:02 - 01:11:26:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
The second would probably and I think we are the second one, we are in this direction. It's it's about, having the industry metric having more success cases, more larger. fans or players, betting on, on local projects and keeping them here and, and hopefully come up launching them them here. And then the third one, I guess would be in the.

01:11:26:12 - 01:12:03:07
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It's, it's it's also a regulation, but I think we should make, things more attractive for companies, for the private sector in general. So the private sector wants to be established here and wants to, stay here for, for, for some reason so that I and I'm talking about the talent now as well. both both, the large companies and and the talent, it's difficult though, because,

01:12:03:09 - 01:12:31:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Because we are fundamentally very different from our competitors. not not competitors, but other other regions, such as the U.S or China that are now far, you know, it's far more than us. And we are fundamentally different, mainly because of, how our system is built. And I'm speaking about Social Security and, and all that work.

01:12:31:24 - 01:12:56:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
well, being right, Yeah, I, I don't remember now that you need to speak, but that that that all that that the health care, London have the, the social care system that that we have built with the years is something that is, very interesting. But on the other side, it's it's also limiting in some aspects.

01:12:56:08 - 01:13:19:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And, and when we are competing with, regions or continental countries that, that don't have, these, these systems and are more, more agile and can innovate faster and break things faster. this is outside, I think, you know, I, I, I sense that is that is difficult to to change.

01:13:19:23 - 01:13:45:22
Christian Soschner
Very, it's not something that you mention China. I think China is amazing because, 1989, 1991, just from, I still remember the pictures from the newspaper was but you saw mostly people on bicycles. And, when you looked at other regions of China, it looked like they were living in many medieval ages. And now in 2024, it's always traveling to the east coast of China.

01:13:45:22 - 01:14:02:16
Christian Soschner
It's like a trip to the future. And in just three decades, this picture changed completely from, and developed country to a country that's probably already outcompete United States in many areas.

01:14:02:19 - 01:14:04:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Exactly, exactly.

01:14:04:01 - 01:14:28:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And and and the United selfie themselves, they are they are also worried about this. Right. Because they are trying to figure out how to compete, you know, up against their these, there's nothing it's going to be very difficult. It's, it's, a country that has, a market. Again, we were comparing Europe to the US, right?

01:14:28:18 - 01:14:57:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
We thought our China market. So it's, it's, exponentially larger market than the than the US, potentially in terms of, in terms of user, we've, a lot of coming from a lower base. So a lot of delta, right. A lot of marginal, gain to be, to be made and, and a lot of, a lot of positive innovation and regulation that is pushing, in terms of protection of internal innovation, of of of many other things.

01:14:57:01 - 01:15:12:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm not an expert, but but, you mentioned these through the gates. I'm, I wonder how this sentence is going to be next decade or two decades from now. It's going to it's probably going to be even larger.

01:15:12:23 - 01:15:33:05
Christian Soschner
I mean, I think Europe's position interesting when you look at, when you look at the numbers, you have the United States here for Europe, you have China, Southeast Asia, United States, 340 million inhabitants, about its, citizens. When you look at Europe as a whole, not only the European Union, we have a number of 750 million people.

01:15:33:07 - 01:15:56:14
Christian Soschner
It's a huge market. It's why speak is the United States, roughly speaking. So it's just simplified. When you look at China, it's 1.4 billion. So it's twice the size of Europe. When you look at the economic power, I would say first it would rank the United States. Still China in first and Europe is our it was different three decades ago.

01:15:56:16 - 01:16:06:15
Christian Soschner
So I think it there's no excuse that we can't change it and we can't move forward. There is a lot of potential which is not leveraged yet.

01:16:06:15 - 01:16:28:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I mean, I'm I'm sure of it. I'm sure of it. these things kind of always change. It's about, it's about how fast can we drive these changes? I'm not sure we can drive these changes that that fast, but. Yes, for sure. I mean, the in the future, we can, make things better off. And this is about creating that needs.

01:16:28:23 - 01:16:55:14
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right? China for some, that China was in the need of changing things. Right. Because they it's their population. Wait wait wait. You need so far Europe is not, still in a comfortable position. So probably it's not that it's not, it's it's very established. it's difficult to imagine that that we, that would be a major change.

01:16:55:16 - 01:17:43:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
In the whole organization. And you mentioned, Europe as a whole beyond the European Union, which is also a different it has even even different challenges. Right. So, so first and foremost is to take care of, of, things internally. doing our best, trying to, stay more efficient to trying to capitalize our, our wealth because Europe has a lot of, wealth, and, and and and by the way, by wealth, I also mean the capacity of, forming great minds that have the capacity of, developing, you know, great solutions and great companies and just make sure that there's the space, in Europe to, to develop them without having others,

01:17:43:17 - 01:17:54:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
coming in and buying the space or just acquiring the solutions when, when we are just too well to, to prove themselves so we can still there's room for hope. There's room for

01:17:54:18 - 01:17:59:04
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
hope. And that was to develop our own, our institutions.

01:17:59:06 - 01:18:26:18
Christian Soschner
I mean, Europe has great minds, 750 million. We have great universities. we also have entrepreneurs. I don't think that we lack the talent. I think it's just statistics. And, when people are born, it's a certain percentage will become entrepreneur. that's the right personality for that. But you mentioned earlier, and maybe if we take a little bit deeper into that, that at one point in time we just don't have the environment in Europe.

01:18:26:20 - 01:18:37:09
Christian Soschner
can you describe how the current collaboration between US investors and European investors looks like in the areas you operate?

01:18:37:11 - 01:18:39:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
in, in.

01:18:39:18 - 01:19:11:00
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Seoul, I would say, lately interesting. after the 2021, burst, I think, in general, every single, American investor, decided to move back to the US and, and control their, their own things. Now we're starting to see a little bit more of my collaboration. again, they usually.

01:19:11:02 - 01:19:42:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I think from the American perspective, they, they know very well they have a large market in their own, and they look at their early stage development very closely. And when they look at Europe, it's when, it's from a, a later stage perspective. So when projects that they're already picking up, that they know they will be more successful or more, financially successful, in the U.S, it's when, Americans are coming and we're seeing interesting leaders.

01:19:42:24 - 01:20:04:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
There's, there are a couple of or three examples. lately there was the, well, of course, the by your Congress has for years now had its own satellites on, you know, in Europe, in other regions, in the country level, even in different countries. but we have seen now, the l'essai country, Congress and the rest of Congress.

01:20:04:04 - 01:20:33:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I mean, Congress has not very recently, created their, their European, Congress, as well, and probably to look at and, and to catch, catch projects, early and even in these, you know, had space. There was, these, have Congress, you know, to them one month ago, roughly one month ago, in which, which was organized by that, the organizers of the main or one of the main digital health congresses in the U.S.

01:20:33:08 - 01:20:58:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So the are starting to I mean, their appetite into, into European companies is back slowly and we are seeing oblivion by these three examples. We are this is already a cycle that that they do see Europe as a source of of quality. The so, just I think you get it. I that, slightly later stage that most of the European funds.

01:20:58:23 - 01:21:25:17
Christian Soschner
which makes sense for the United States because, I mean, we have a problem in the later stages. Anyways, the don't needs to find still a risk, so they can just be passive and say, okay, play play with it, play with it, and when the story stand gets traction as they can then just relocated to United States and say, look, make a subsidiary, put your headquarter somewhere, a Silicon Valley, Boston, in other ecosystems and build it from there.

01:21:25:17 - 01:21:37:22
Christian Soschner
And we give you the capital that you need, and then you IPO the thing, you get rich and, thing is done makes sense for the United States. Don't be afraid of that. Does it make sense for Europe?

01:21:37:24 - 01:21:40:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
How many IPOs have we seen in Europe lately?

01:21:40:24 - 01:21:45:13
Christian Soschner
due to those that we have seen, I think failed to.

01:21:45:15 - 01:21:45:24
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It's I

01:21:45:24 - 01:22:12:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
think it's a different market. As I said, it's a, it's a different market. There's, it's, it's it's about the, I don't think it's about, it's, it's in our hands. It's about us creating the right ecosystem, creating, more, larger funds that are, that are betting into into European companies, public markets. Look, I mean, I don't know, I keep hearing that public markets are decreasing.

01:22:12:08 - 01:22:38:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
you know, we could look for, for our, for a better, small cap public market in Europe than the one we have. But I think as long as we are able to, to keep our companies here from the funding perspective, I, I don't really think it's that important to have, you know, you know, a public market or, or an IPO, actually necessarily here.

01:22:38:20 - 01:22:54:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But but as long as we are able to, keep fund companies at the local level and most importantly, prevent larger corporations to, to absorb them, we might have an opportunity here.

01:22:54:15 - 01:23:22:10
Christian Soschner
I completely agree. I think, the measures when I would sum it up is, first we need to incentivize public and private investors to put capital into startups and scale ups in Europe. and I think this is mostly politicians and regulatory, regulatory authorities. That's to provide the right environment with tax credits and tax breaks. I see all the time in the United States, this is what, they get as incentive to invest in young companies.

01:23:22:10 - 01:23:39:13
Christian Soschner
It's tax break you. They give it to the government or give it to startups. And the US favors startups and favors entrepreneurs. And this is something we can change in Europe. We had it in the 90s already. Bonn think we need more capital. And the second thing with the capital market to think of an IPO is an exit scenario.

01:23:39:15 - 01:24:05:11
Christian Soschner
And it doesn't really matter whether you, IPO a company in Europe or the United States, when the business model is working. So when the company has a solid business model, then investors invest any time when you can, when you can prove to a U.S investor, my company does a minimum of 30% return on investment on your investment when you buy this stock for the next 20 years, then you buy.

01:24:05:11 - 01:24:18:08
Christian Soschner
It doesn't matter if it's listed on, in Germany, in Spain, or in the United States without a tax return. An IPO in the United States doesn't help either. But what we really need is we need to motivate people to invest in Europe. It's my opinion.

01:24:18:10 - 01:24:22:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Fully agree. I fully agree with you. I fully agree with you.

01:24:22:03 - 01:24:44:11
Christian Soschner
When someone listens to this episode and say, okay, I want to create an impact and probably then picks up the phone and says, Charlie, let's have a conversation to have a nice impact story. what are your non-negotiables? What are the minimum requirements? A company must show that you say, okay, makes sense that we have this kind.

01:24:44:11 - 01:25:20:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It's, It's interesting. So for me, I would say business as usual. I mean, it has to be a had a great team. we've I great, at least proof of concept. Right. you know, you know, and it has to have a market, a decent market. beyond this, what we will look at is that there intentionality and, and, and and we would work with him and I would, at least, grasp, his ideas on his solution so I can identify, once that theory of change.

01:25:20:12 - 01:25:41:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So what's the problem? he wants to solve? And there's this, very interesting book. funny luck with the problem, and not the solution. So, it's it's about identifying. Okay, what's the what's the pressing problem that you want to solve? And how did you come to this, solution as the best one or as the as your preferred one to solve the problem?

01:25:42:04 - 01:26:08:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Because your expertise is because whatever. because more often than not, we find solutions. Are there technologies that are really, really cool, in the scientific level and and not the and and out of it. but but more often and more often than what one would think we found there's our struggling to, to find us to find that a problem in which the solution would fit.

01:26:08:18 - 01:26:30:04
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So so we would want to test what's their theory of change. Was this pressing problem, social or environmental problem that they want to change? How did they come to this solution? you know, if, the solution looks like a viable, project that we would, would go into it, again, it's it's it's about intentionality, but additionality.

01:26:30:05 - 01:26:59:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
What's the what's the difference between the current standard of care and about being able to identify direct, measurements in this, in that theory of change. Right. So there has to be a direct relation between their solution and the change they want to make. But you said they had to be, I think regulation between, the use of the product or the solution and the improvement in quality of, of, of the person's health, cannot be indirect.

01:26:59:20 - 01:27:22:24
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And I wanted to add to your question that impact, is a broad and free word. and this means that that impact is everywhere and impact is, senseless, without the frame. And, and I would like to say, if someone picks the phone and goes, I seem to be. Of course we will be glad. Please do.

01:27:22:24 - 01:27:48:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So, we will analyze projects from our lenses, from what we have defined as the impact and what we have, promised our investors that we would look at within companies. These doesn't mean that whenever, we say, okay, this is, this doesn't fall with our theory of change or with our, thesis. this doesn't mean that the company does not provide.

01:27:48:16 - 01:28:29:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Sorry, but in fact, this is everywhere we can create impact with, many projects. And you talk about, defining impact and, and and whenever I see our founder, wants to impact in a way that is aligned with our purpose, that, would be if there's a maximum would be like. But I want to I also wanted to make the point that, impact is, is, I mean, this is free and is out there, to be picked up by everyone, in their own way, you know, and, and and there are many, many ways, to make the play, make the world a better place and to improve people's lives that that

01:28:29:10 - 01:28:36:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
are way beyond and way out of our what, what we define impacting ventures.

01:28:36:03 - 01:28:48:13
Christian Soschner
If you understand your rights. we talked earlier in the podcast about your theory of change, and, basically your theory of change describes the way you see impact. Did you get the right understanding?

01:28:48:14 - 01:28:48:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Oh,

01:28:48:23 - 01:29:17:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
the our theory of change is aware is our choice. regarding what which aspects do we want to create impact on. Right. So there can so there can be there should be many other impact investors or not impact investors. that might look out for impacts that are completely different than the ones that we are looking.

01:29:18:07 - 01:29:21:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
For instance, I don't know, we are focusing on chronic diseases. There

01:29:21:06 - 01:29:37:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
might be an impact on that or a health care fund that is focusing on on acute diseases. And there's a lot of impact to be created there. Right. just that I can't it's not within our scope. I usually compare these with, with NGOs because for some reason, I think it's easier to understand.

01:29:37:01 - 01:30:06:14
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So you can you can make a donation, you know, a philanthropy donation to an NGO that is focusing on oncology, you know, and, and, and research in oncology. And another one that is, focused on, I don't know, researching I timer's disease, you know, and if I, if, if, if you as a person as I, as a donor, you feel more engaged with oncology for personal reasons, for whatever.

01:30:06:16 - 01:30:30:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
you will donate in the oncology work. This doesn't mean that the oncology, oh, NGO is making more impact on the same. Or why no one is better than the other one, or that one is impacting the other. It's not. It's just that they are. They both want to create impact in different fields. And I want you it's change is is defines the field in which we want to create impact.

01:30:30:06 - 01:30:52:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But you can create impacting I mean endless of cases. Right. So so yeah I, I just wanted to point this out that it's not, our interpretation of impact or something like this is just the field that's the scope in which we want to create and which we told our investors that we would create, impacting I think makes sense.

01:30:52:11 - 01:31:11:03
Christian Soschner
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. My next question to you is, your definition of impact and your theory of change is accessible on your website. Okay. So when someone thinks about you might be right fits that can go to your website and see this information published. Or is there any other source that you would recommend to look at?

01:31:11:05 - 01:31:11:16
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
our

01:31:11:16 - 01:31:29:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
website definitely. It's a bit vague though. if anyone though is, seeking to add to create a solution for, elderly people or people with chronic diseases just to reach us, I would say, or of course, environmentally, which is I with our other vertical, which is managed by a different team.

01:31:29:23 - 01:31:30:17
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And.

01:31:30:19 - 01:31:50:24
Christian Soschner
And then to test the theory directly in a car. So. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. you mentioned also earlier that's an important factor for you is the right team. My question to you is what we want to see in a team. When you look at the company as an investment case.

01:31:51:01 - 01:31:51:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I

01:31:51:06 - 01:32:19:00
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
want to see a balanced team with XP, with a balanced, and an experience in the field. They are developing, a team that is, very experienced and very sharp, but humble at the same time. And that knowledgeable about the difficulties that these, ahead of us, of the team and, I want to see a team that really believes in what they are developing.

01:32:19:03 - 01:32:42:09
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And I should like again, because, actually, interestingly, empirically, teams that are out there for that purpose are far more persistent than they were the ones that they are. They're out there for an opportunistic, you know, an opportunity. They identified them. Right. So so we will look at the intentionality as well. Yeah.

01:32:42:12 - 01:33:00:09
Christian Soschner
And so it's lastly, I want to be rich in 18 months. Crowd. It's right up there. I have, hundreds of cancer cases in my environment. I want to change that, that properly myself. And, it's time to change that and move forward. And so personal motivation, it's just a bland example.

01:33:00:11 - 01:33:00:18
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It's

01:33:00:18 - 01:33:13:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
exactly this. Yes, yes. Oh, look. And this is actually within our even within our memo that when we presented our investment coming this week, there's a whole section dedicated to the intentionality of the founders.

01:33:13:02 - 01:33:30:08
Christian Soschner
When we look at parks team development, I mean, I have a background in economics. It's my life, a background image acquisition. And, so public companies on one hand and on the other hand, I've worked with startups. And very often, especially in life science, teams evolve out of university and, experts in the field.

01:33:31:07 - 01:33:53:01
Christian Soschner
But like other team members, like, business, for example, business expertise. when we talk about diversity of skills in a team. How important is the to you? Is this something that should be already there, or is that something where you say, okay, it's an impact investment early stage case. So we will develop the company that direction. How do you see this problem?

01:33:54:06 - 01:34:27:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
on the type of company. We so we we invest from a very technical scientific companies to business models that are not where technology is not at the core of the project. Right. we will definitely want to see, we will prefer to see more than one team. It's not mandatory, but it's highly preferred. We would want to see, experience and physical experience either in the field or, starting businesses.

01:34:27:21 - 01:34:52:09
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
for sure. There has to be someone that these expert, in the, at a clinical level with their solution. They, they are developing so closer closer to the, to the patient in the sense to that, to the problem they want to solve rather than technically the solution, how it's built. Of course, we want someone very expert in their in developing the technology.

01:34:52:09 - 01:35:13:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right. but but before these we want to see someone who is very close to the patient and who has a lot of experience with the patient, knows exactly what the patient or person, needs or user needs. and then, of course, some experience with business development is is preferable, although these can be incorporated at a later.

01:35:14:01 - 01:35:31:14
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I don't know these mistakes, but I would say clinical or patient experience would be the number one then project or technical or technological then business development in these, in these in these are, you.

01:35:31:14 - 01:35:59:07
Christian Soschner
Know, like like the perspective you bring to the table. You encourage people to understand the problem first, which means understanding the market, which means understanding the industry, operating on the markets, and to really have deep insight into this area, to understand where a company can make a change and what part of the problem it may be is that the small team can tackle is to say, an understanding of what's required to me, something.

01:35:59:13 - 01:36:02:07
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
That's that's not exactly what I meant. Yes.

01:36:02:09 - 01:36:22:05
Christian Soschner
So when I look at drug development, I mean, biotech, for example, it's, would probably help hiring, medical director for work already. Big pharma, well developed drugs, already has a history of success for, filings at the FDA. It may.

01:36:22:05 - 01:36:31:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Yes, but even more important, I mean, even more important than that would be a doctor that has treated patients. Yeah, that can be.

01:36:31:08 - 01:36:46:02
Christian Soschner
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, when you look at the success cases, you always have to have this person as a founder, as a co-founder or hired, very early in the development. And this is then the company that gets the investment capital.

01:36:46:04 - 01:36:47:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

01:36:47:24 - 01:36:54:12
Christian Soschner
It wasn't it's just one example of an industry, but it also applies to every other industry being a team with a solution.

01:36:54:14 - 01:36:54:24
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It

01:36:54:24 - 01:37:21:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
applies it applies to other industries. I mean, we we last year we invested into an, software, specifically dedicated to nursing homes for elderly people. within the co-founders, one of them, has, six nursing homes and has been in the sector for 30 years. So they know exactly, what, you know, their, customers need what their issues within that, the carers are the families, everything.

01:37:21:24 - 01:37:43:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
and, and, you know, the other, co-founder, he was, an expert in, software as a service, development, baby. He had experience in that field, and it was just apart from each one of them knew exactly what the, what the market demanded and what was missing. And the other one knew or knows how to how to build.

01:37:43:03 - 01:37:53:09
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And so even out of that, scientific, work, we would want to see exactly these the same, competition within the team.

01:37:53:12 - 01:38:24:02
Christian Soschner
And we put this in a recommendation for academics on this. I mean, you can sum it up. It would mean that when a team, leaves academia thinking to have the right solution for, a problem, it would make sense. Maybe stay in your example with the nursing houses when the team academic team just thinks, okay, we have a solution for nursing houses, it would help us to reach out to nursing houses to find someone who sees the problem and bring this person on for part, and then reach out to investors with a more complete team.

01:38:24:02 - 01:38:30:00
Christian Soschner
Is this something that would help, or is it, not through the necessary?

01:38:30:00 - 01:39:00:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
For sure it does happen. And and I keep seeing, some of the founders that I value the most are the ones that, at some point they decided to, to experience, what, their customers are so in the, in the nursing home space, for instance, there was a, a founder, that was, creating or another solution for nursing homes and, he, volunteered as a carer.

01:39:00:19 - 01:39:26:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I don't nursing home for a few months himself just to learn how nursing homes work. How what, I day to day is for, for, an elderly person living there, what the challenges are. But for the team, what happens? We, the family coming in to fight and and I do I do these I don't because these people are really, obsessed with, with sympathizing with their with their users.

01:39:26:01 - 01:39:47:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And we fighting for the right solution rather than thinking upfront. Okay. Yeah, these might be helpful. I'm going have them data develop something and once it's ready, I need to develop. I'm going to try go, and sell it. And it's rather the opposite. Right. Okay. I'm going to learn first how things, work and and then I'm going to I will try to develop the best solution.

01:39:47:23 - 01:40:16:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And this is why I'm also I, I highly, value the Stanford by design concept, which is exactly this. Right. It's exactly going out there to them, clinical setting, being in contact with patients, being in contact with clinicians and then, finding the solution and, and then once, once we know how the solution should do, like then we will we'll put together the team, the right team to do that.

01:40:16:02 - 01:40:16:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But

01:40:16:06 - 01:40:27:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
then it's important that the the idea arises from. From where it belongs. Right. Rather than from a lab or academia or cases that you were describing.

01:40:27:05 - 01:40:27:09
Christian Soschner
In

01:40:27:09 - 01:40:32:12
Christian Soschner
a describe, the Stanford Biodesign model a little bit more.

01:40:32:14 - 01:40:40:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Where it's, it's, It's it's, first of all, I'm not that an

01:40:40:20 - 01:41:05:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
expert in the in this, in this field, there's, it's a whole masters, trial provided by by Stanford, but it's, basically it has three, processors. It has, the first is, understanding the, the, the problem. Then there's a second concept that is conceptualizing the solution.

01:41:05:24 - 01:41:40:13
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right. Why don't you have identified the problem conceptualizing and testing, the solution within that setting, as I suppose. And then and then, scaling it up. Right. So it's it's kind of A34 process, very similar to the design thinking, that is, you start so out of the, out of the healthcare, where it's, so there's this, beside thinking, a framework that that has exactly these three concepts and, and it's, it all arises with the, source of the problem, then building, backwards.

01:41:40:16 - 01:42:04:04
Christian Soschner
It it's basically all back down to what Jeff Bezos said, customer centricity. So at the end of the day, so life science companies needs to put the customer at the center of their attention, identify them. It's patients. It's the health care system. It's the health care providers, it's the doctors. And without that understanding and tech knowhow. And you also mentioned that they should be obsessed about the solution and the problem.

01:42:04:06 - 01:42:11:19
Christian Soschner
without this obsession, it's not only passion, it's really they should, think 24 seven about solving problems for their customers.

01:42:11:21 - 01:42:13:07
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Exactly, exactly.

01:42:13:09 - 01:42:24:16
Christian Soschner
Thanks. And this is something that you look also in teams. So that's the radiates the confidence that's they really prove to you in the way they speak that they are really obsessed with their idea.

01:42:24:18 - 01:42:48:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Absolutely, absolutely. And it's so and when I spoke about intentionality. So this is a key part of it. Right. So we want to see what drives them. What you know, what do they we usually not only have business conversations, but we also go out for lunch or dinner or we spend some extra time, you know, at some point we, we try to spend a day and a half with them.

01:42:48:08 - 01:43:19:21
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And, so we build lots a personal relations and these personal conversations out of the business conversations where you see how is their lifestyle, what do they doing, their free time, how do they, you know what what is that? Where is that maybe, that company and and and you can see a lot of that, when you, when you spend some time with people and, and we do, and we think the intention is we do want to make sure that they are obsessed with this solution and that they came out with a solution.

01:43:19:23 - 01:43:31:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
after, thinking got out of the problem. And after wanting to solve that problem rather than the other way around, which is what happens in many, many cases.

01:43:32:00 - 01:43:33:22
Christian Soschner
Now we have a solution. Now we want money.

01:43:33:24 - 01:43:51:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So or. Yeah, exactly. Or. Yeah. I mean, you know, I was studying a PhD, I was studying in these, you know, I realized that, you know, I could I could build something, you know, and now it's there, I'm there and try to find a use case. You know, I get there at some point, but it's not that nice.

01:43:51:16 - 01:44:05:13
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Some cases are good. And and we see a lot of, platforms in particular that has been have been successful there. But it's just not it's not what we it's what we prefer. Right. We prefer the other way around.

01:44:05:13 - 01:44:23:03
Christian Soschner
Now, I agree, I think it's a good starting point when someone has a solution. I it's been something. But before reaching out to investors, it makes more sense to look on the market and find, partners on the market. Well, understand also that the second half of, of the problem of of the company offering integrated solutions, thinking into customer centricity.

01:44:23:05 - 01:44:38:05
Christian Soschner
And in terms of track development, it's easy. It's the medical doctor working in big pharma, developing tracks with a history of, treating patients and developing drugs. Now the industry, it's the same. And then reach out to investors. It's much more impact than just with an academic team.

01:44:38:07 - 01:44:41:09
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Exactly, exactly. Absolutely, absolutely.

01:44:41:11 - 01:45:08:02
Christian Soschner
I'm a huge fan of, business cases and use cases. I know that you have probably, and then a bit of a problem to just pick one, in the final, final part of our conversation, you have many investments, and they are probably all great, but, do you have one case where you can exemplify your approach that you can walk us through to, to say, okay, this is, how investment looks like this of a ship to be, why we went in, how it's developed, and how the exit looks like.

01:45:08:08 - 01:45:12:10
Christian Soschner
So we have one case that you could walk us through.

01:45:12:12 - 01:45:12:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I

01:45:12:23 - 01:45:29:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
would have I would have, a few. but out of being polite, I want to mention the last one because I was talking. It's the one that that, I have I spoke about the least, probably, in, in, in, in different forums. And I think it's a good example actually. It's, it's happening with example.

01:45:29:20 - 01:45:59:09
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
It's a, company. It's it's called Lillian Carey. It's a company in Germany. that is basically providing, hybrid, primary care in rural areas across Germany. Right. So, so, we know there's, a big problem, in rural areas, both, first and foremost, these areas are getting older and older because the younger generations are going to urban areas.

01:45:59:11 - 01:46:32:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And then due to them to the, decreasing number of providers, there are many areas that are, that are and without a proper, primary care service. And actually in Germany only today there are full 4000 that consists of primary care, facilities in rural areas. So this these company care has inspired also by other health care systems in other countries.

01:46:32:23 - 01:47:02:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
They have they are developing a hybrid care model in which, you don't need to have, physician, 24 over seven in the facility, but the physician can, go to that to the right area once or twice per week. And, and, and the facility facilities mainly managed by, nursing and, and physician assistants. And then there's a lot of, remote care, technology put into that.

01:47:02:22 - 01:47:33:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
These company solving according to our, description of, of impact, the impact that we want to provide solving, two problems, first and foremost is bringing is making care accessible in places in which is, becoming less and less accessible. So in these various so, so we don't contribute to that urbanization. And we can keep these people which by the way, most of them I think advanced age, they can still, be well taken care of in their places.

01:47:34:00 - 01:48:10:13
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And on the other hand, we are helping the system become more efficient so more people can be treated with the same resources, with the same physician. And, how do they come to it? Why? We we we met the, the founders of, I Congress. it was, actually a very, friendly, friendly conversation. Oh, the CEO or the main founder was completely obsessed about these, actually, as a matter of fact, he had, he had been working or he had been dreaming about this, idea for, for almost 15 years.

01:48:10:13 - 01:48:21:15
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And actually, I know this because, when doing our, our texts and we contacted people that had previously worked with them and they even brought, that into the subject.

01:48:21:15 - 01:48:46:16
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And his co-founder is someone who had, established, health care or tele care services within Germany at a different company, for, for many, many years. So both of them where I hadn't been touched by them, they were they had a lot of knowledge of the systems that were successful in this field, in, in this field.

01:48:46:16 - 01:49:20:04
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Excuse me. And they had the operational experience in order to make it successful. We just waited, and, and and screened the company for almost a year, to see how the developments where, how the first offices were established and, just very recently, a couple of months ago, and we were lucky to announce our I want to invest in the company, and we are not very, happy and motivated to be, part of their team and their journey and contribute to their to their theory of change.

01:49:20:04 - 01:49:42:08
Christian Soschner
Yeah. Thank you for asking me. So, you mentioned intentionality, when presenting the case, and I think this is something that is not very, very often talked about in decomposition programs. maybe if you highlighted a little bit more by intentionality. So important, when you evaluate an investment case, what's, what's your opinion based? It's important to you.

01:49:42:10 - 01:49:42:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So

01:49:42:19 - 01:50:12:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
yeah, it's it's it's it's three things that are important. I use intentionality, additionality and measurement. Intentionality is important because it relates to what I said earlier in the two. whether, it relates to the probability of the founders giving up or not when they face difficulties. So if they are intentional about it, it means that they are obsessed with the problem, and it means that they are out there to solve the problem, to problem beyond the company.

01:50:12:05 - 01:50:35:24
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So most likely if they happen, you know, if for whatever reason, the current project happens to fail because it can, they will most likely start something else within the same few, and, and this and and because the team, is such an important asset at these stages, we do want to make sure that the intentionality is out there.

01:50:36:01 - 01:50:57:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And then, of course, additionally, these are top absolutely importance because of their clinical needs. And them I mean, yeah, that's right. It has to be there. So both both things are really parts just that I think that additionality is kind of and I speak, I always speak in addition to additionality because these are the factors and we do, say the same type of thing that in the healthcare sector to define exactly the same concept.

01:50:57:08 - 01:51:15:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
the additionality part, the clinical part is kind of a no brainer within health care already. I mean, everyone, everyone looks at it. So probably it's not, it's not that addition, although it's additionality and, and intentionality for us is really is really important. And we do put a lot of a lot of attention into that.

01:51:15:11 - 01:51:28:11
Christian Soschner
Mathematically, doctor, you should have somebody, 2 or 3 decades of experience and already has proof that he, he, invested, significant lifetime into understanding the problem.

01:51:28:13 - 01:51:33:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So, so only the decision of becoming a medical doctor has already showed a lot of intentionality.

01:51:33:22 - 01:51:50:00
Christian Soschner
But this is it is exactly. I think this is the problem that is not very often technical in a, in any, in any in entrepreneurship program that people really need. So obsessed with the problem to attract investment capital, focus points, because it's a measure for you to say, okay, things will go tough, it will be hard.

01:51:50:00 - 01:52:09:10
Christian Soschner
This will be a hard journey. of course there are great times of course, when the business works, money is pouring in. Everybody's happy. I mean, Nvidia Hanson Wang is all businessmen on it, but, on his face. But when you look at his speeches from, ten, 15 years ago, it was not that certain. And it was hard.

01:52:09:10 - 01:52:23:24
Christian Soschner
And he very often Manchester stats, Nvidia was not the only once at the brink of bankruptcy and without dissension, intentionality and obsession for for a topic, it's easy to give up debt and say, okay, we have we have done it.

01:52:24:02 - 01:52:32:00
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
it's a great example. It's it's exactly what we're talking about. Yes, it's about that. Stay there. Staying there. If I need the hard times.

01:52:32:02 - 01:53:00:11
Christian Soschner
I mean vaccine, give it a vaccine is an example. Many vaccine ten years ago in vaccine development and vaccine development was basically deemed that, besides some people who sat next BioNTech, for example, the founders would say, okay, there is something and we we love doing it and we do it. And then they were there at the right time with a developed solution, with a well understood problem, when really the problem became global.

01:53:00:13 - 01:53:14:12
Christian Soschner
the US, which tried to jump on the train, maybe some made money, but they're all gone now, so I away if it's gone and, all the companies are, away. BioNTech not they are still there.

01:53:14:14 - 01:53:21:22
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Exactly. They went into the next and you think, except for the ones that they're out there. I out there for a purpose.

01:53:21:24 - 01:53:25:10
Christian Soschner
Yeah. And these are the founders that you are looking for basically as an investor.

01:53:25:12 - 01:53:27:11
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Exactly. Right.

01:53:27:13 - 01:53:37:17
Christian Soschner
When we look at the future in the final minutes, where do you see Ship to Be ventures in the next 5 to 10 years?

01:53:37:19 - 01:53:38:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Great

01:53:38:01 - 01:54:25:13
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
question. everywhere. we are a young, we are a young, venture capital firm. It's, we are now, investing out of our second fund, hopefully, starting raising its fund soon, in the next few months. we do have a parallel, fund that is being, he's currently fundraising for pediatrics exclusively. I think seem to be, would like to be, more present, broader, at a broader scale, with, with larger funds, with, more selected impact areas.

01:54:25:15 - 01:55:10:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And why not, we say other asset classes? because in the end, right now we have venture capital vehicle, it's the impact we can make. These is he's he's he's very. I don't want to say narrow, but but it's it's very déterminé in, in, in, very specific type of, company in a specific stage of development, while by adding new asset classes or, or even new types of impact, maybe, maybe we can we can, go out there with, funds that are not returning, market, market rates, but maybe a little bit below so we can target different projects.

01:55:10:10 - 01:55:25:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
In the end, we might we might want to be, multi-asset vehicle in order to have a broader impact, not only geographically, but also in terms of the type of, project that we can invest so we can make our program.

01:55:25:23 - 01:55:29:08
Christian Soschner
That's sort of vision. How much capital do we have under management currently?

01:55:29:10 - 01:55:30:16
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Right now, 60,000,005.

01:55:30:22 - 01:55:32:06
Christian Soschner
660.

01:55:32:08 - 01:55:33:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Zero.

01:55:33:08 - 01:55:36:14
Christian Soschner
Six. You're about closing deferred fund.

01:55:36:16 - 01:55:37:02
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
And

01:55:37:02 - 01:55:42:11
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
and we are about to start fundraising from this fund. Yes.

01:55:42:13 - 01:55:47:17
Christian Soschner
So yeah. So so you are a part of what you started already.

01:55:47:19 - 01:55:59:12
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Yeah. No. We we we're going to start probably in the next few months. We haven't started. We are still investing. We are still very focused in deploying and closing our, our final investments within this vehicle. Okay.

01:55:59:12 - 01:56:03:04
Christian Soschner
So in the next six months. So it's early 20, 25, ten probably.

01:56:03:04 - 01:56:05:20
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Yeah. Late 20, 24, 3535.

01:56:05:22 - 01:56:14:01
Christian Soschner
Yeah. Which is which is now in fundraising. I think, but what were the types of investors that you are looking for for your fund? Okay.

01:56:14:03 - 01:56:14:11
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So

01:56:14:11 - 01:56:42:05
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
we are looking for, regular investors and we are looking for the investors that, that I am looking for, our, for these asset class that, might be experienced with, philanthropy or not, that certainly have a purpose and have, there's an emotional component of what we do. They have to, feel engaged with our purpose, and, for sure.

01:56:42:07 - 01:57:17:03
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
But but in general, we are looking for institutional investors and family offices that that, are, into venture capital that want to explore, more diversification in their portfolio, looking at their market returns and, and, and, and gaining these, diversification. We have different look, we've had different lenses. right. We can we can provide I think that the way we look at them and the way we compose our portfolio, by looking at people rather than technologies, makes our portfolio pretty diversified, in terms of type of projects and in terms of size of projects.

01:57:17:03 - 01:57:34:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So I think we are, cool option, both from our purpose and impact perspective. And also we had, a nice, alternative within, venture capital portfolio because it's, outside different setting. we look for, you.

01:57:34:06 - 01:57:48:21
Christian Soschner
Know, like fans who, that's, frequently raising new funds. That's basically their purpose to, to raise one fund, offset the other, and provide capital to our to entrepreneurs. what's your minimum ticket size that you're looking for? That you're.

01:57:48:23 - 01:57:52:16
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
For? I don't even all of all right.

01:57:52:18 - 01:57:58:10
Christian Soschner
For for for your next fund. So when some institutional investors are listening. But what's the minimum size that you.

01:57:58:10 - 01:58:04:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Can have on the finance? It would probably be around 200 or so.

01:58:04:03 - 01:58:10:10
Christian Soschner
and your investment focus with your next fund will be Spain. Euro it about Mars.

01:58:10:12 - 01:58:11:01
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Saving

01:58:11:01 - 01:58:29:13
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
theory of change. A European focus. we have we have now approximately 30% of our investments abroad. We might want to extend this person things a little bit more. So we will continue expanding within Europe so far because we are European based and we want to contribute within Europe.

01:58:29:15 - 01:58:38:22
Christian Soschner
With Europe you include also Switzerland, St United Kingdom, not only the European Union, but also countries that are in Europe outside European Union.

01:58:38:24 - 01:58:40:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Yes, exactly.

01:58:40:21 - 01:58:43:06
Christian Soschner
That's that's good to know. That's good to know.

01:58:43:08 - 01:59:17:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Okay. Okay. Yes. Yes. Hopefully. Hopefully. yes. it would be, very nice to have at least, at least one investment in most of the countries. That would be really great. also, I wanted to mention that that the way we invest is, we think we, we like, to call ourselves as, systemic investors, so meaning that most not all, but but most of our, portfolio companies would have synergies among them that could potentially we don't force them.

01:59:17:23 - 01:59:58:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
We don't invest with pre agreements or something. But but but they are all within the same ecosystem and they and they could all potentially potentially collaborate. Of course some of them end up collaborating. We have some very interesting partnerships among them, but some that we might think that they would call everything just, don't. But we do like to think that we contribute as a system towards, towards helping, towards our theory of change, because otherwise, it would be very difficult, very difficult for us to really go towards the change that we want without we we've very and let's say singular investments here and there.

01:59:58:08 - 02:00:11:00
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So we try to have a systemic portfolio. We've actually the two funds that we have right now. And with the third one it would be exactly the same. So we will find we will want to find, synergies among all of our portfolio CapEx.

02:00:11:02 - 02:00:11:09
Christian Soschner
I

02:00:11:09 - 02:00:32:08
Christian Soschner
couldn't agree more. I love this aspect. I totally agree that investors must be interested in building an ecosystem and connect companies and not just look at, the investment assessing asset better from, yeah. And, if it doesn't focus on building ecosystems is, a huge part of the success overall, I think.

02:00:32:10 - 02:00:33:11
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Yeah. Yeah, I think.

02:00:33:11 - 02:00:43:01
Christian Soschner
Andreessen Horowitz, for example, I think there's a tremendous ecosystem connected to founders. And this drive standing at, the huge gains further down the road.

02:00:43:03 - 02:00:46:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Exactly, exactly. So that's the thinking behind it. Yeah.

02:00:46:21 - 02:00:56:18
Christian Soschner
That's correct. Charlie, at the end of our conversation, before I ask my final question, is there anything open that you would like to address?

02:00:56:20 - 02:01:20:23
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
No, actually, I it has been a, a great conversation, a very, compelling conversation with, talked about many, many, many things. And I think I, I it's that it's, the interviewing which, you know, I've been more open and I've, had the chance to talk about more things, so. No, I just wanted to thank you for this opportunity because it's it's been a really, really, a great time.

02:01:21:04 - 02:01:22:19
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I've, I've had a lot of fun.

02:01:22:21 - 02:01:44:20
Christian Soschner
Thank you for coming on the podcast and join the conversation as well. And I learned a lot of new things. but before we close, let me ask you the final question. Got many, young fans currently starting out. Young teams, they have great ideas. you have a little bit more experience now. your team is about closing to further up going fundraising for the third fund.

02:01:44:20 - 02:01:47:03
Christian Soschner
And the next thing is any closing, of course.

02:01:48:04 - 02:02:00:05
Christian Soschner
What advice would you give aspiring health care investors that wants to start the first fund?

02:02:00:07 - 02:02:39:00
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
I think both, and. Make sure. Okay, so, so so make sure that you have, differentiating, proposal and make sure it two, two pull out your, your proposition in terms of what your, you need your your unique deal flow and what's your, purpose for being out there as a fund. So what niche, or what, overlooked opportunity or uncovered market, are you going to be tackling because these would be differentiating and these would be what will, drive investors to invest in you.

02:02:39:00 - 02:02:44:06
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So, so building your portfolio and feeling your uniqueness as a, as a fund.

02:02:44:08 - 02:02:53:13
Christian Soschner
So it's basically a little bit of a USB unique selling proposition and defining, that contrarian approach, why they make a difference and what's not covered in the market today.

02:02:53:13 - 02:02:55:09
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
So you're saying much better than I did.

02:02:55:09 - 02:02:57:10
Christian Soschner
So yeah. No, no, no, no, I just I repeatedly have.

02:02:57:10 - 02:03:03:14
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Asked yeah, yeah. Think this finding a contrarian approach. Yeah I think this.

02:03:03:16 - 02:03:14:03
Christian Soschner
And that advantage of, noise paid us for some. I found we talked a lot about, contrarian approaches with his book. It has, funding versus honor. So there's a lot going on in Spain.

02:03:14:05 - 02:03:32:12
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
There's a lot going on in Spain. As I said at the beginning, it's, I mean, Barcelona in particular. It's, it's a great ecosystem with, many stakeholders from pharma companies to heroes to investors to, great universities. I know a lot going on. You Paradise keys are great. I mean, we we know, we know each other.

02:03:32:12 - 02:03:47:10
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Well, he's, a great fund manager. He's doing outstandingly well. yeah. I also encourage people to come to, Barcelona, to Spain, and and, you know, people interested in democracy stem because there's a lot, I love going on and many opportunities here as well.

02:03:47:12 - 02:04:06:07
Christian Soschner
Yeah, totally. Totally. Charlie, thank you very much for this great conversation and enjoyed every single minute of it. let's catch up. when you start fundraising or when you close your next fund and let's see, how has it developed in and climate change developed in this, 1 or 2 years deal.

02:04:06:11 - 02:04:11:08
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Let's do it. Let's do this. Let's, speak again once we have our new funding. Let's see how things have changed.

02:04:11:10 - 02:04:13:20
Christian Soschner
So this is a okay.

02:04:13:20 - 02:04:15:14
Jordi Ferrer Rendé
Best of luck. Okay. Bye bye.

02:04:15:16 - 02:04:17:04
Christian Soschner
Thank you. Bye.

02:04:17:04 - 02:04:37:02
Christian Soschner
that brings us to the end of this insightful episode. We explore how the health care sector's environmental impact can be addressed by measuring CO2 emissions, how prevention could reshape the future of patient care, and the critical role of regulators in driving real sustainability.

02:04:37:04 - 02:04:48:23
Christian Soschner
Traditional Danish expertise on balancing financial returns with measurable social impact and why intentionality is key to success in healthcare investing.

02:04:48:23 - 02:05:13:17
Christian Soschner
If you found value in today's conversation, please take a moment to like, comment and share this episode. Your support helps us grow the show, attract more impactful speakers, and continue bringing you valuable content. Like this. Remember, real change starts with support for committed individuals like you.

02:05:13:20 - 02:05:26:06
Christian Soschner
Let's continue to drive meaningful conversations that can shape the future for the better. Thanks for tuning in and we will see you next time.