Dan Bowyer: Rethinking Venture Capital with Superseed VC (SPARK 20 – 125)

What does it take to redefine venture capital while empowering founders to disrupt industries and drive meaningful change? Meet Dan Bowyer, a bold investor from Superseed VC reshaping the game with a no-nonsense approach and a passion for impactful innovation.

In this episode, Dan shares his journey from entrepreneur to VC and dives deep into what’s wrong with traditional venture capital. He reveals the personality traits that define world-changing founders, the importance of customer obsession, and the stark realities of boardroom dynamics. Dan’s candid insights and thought-provoking lessons are as entertaining as they are eye-opening.

Whether you’re an aspiring founder, an experienced investor, or someone intrigued by the startup world, this conversation will teach you:

• Why venture capital doesn’t work for 99.9% of founders—and what needs to change.
• The three personality traits that separate great founders from the rest.
• How misaligned boards and outdated practices can derail even the best startups.

At the heart of it all, Dan’s passion for connecting people, products, and processes shines through. As he says, “The next wave of commercial activity is about making money and doing good—it's not just about the bottom line anymore.”

Curious for more? Listen to the full episode here and dive deeper into Dan’s bold vision and unfiltered perspective.

Quotes:

(3:44) "Most VCs have never worked in a startup, so how can they advise one?"
(9:42) "The greatest founders are not just charming—they’re determined, disagreeable, and unrelenting in disrupting the status quo."
(22:02) "We've moved on from 'don’t be a dick' to 'do some good'—and that’s how we transform the future."

Timestamps

(01:37) Bridging the Gap: Why Venture Capital Fails 99% of Founders
(03:44) Startup Struggles: The Hard Truths Founders Need to Hear
(09:42) Decoding Greatness: Traits of Exceptional Founders
(12:58) From Prototype to Profit: Why Customer Obsession Wins
(17:01) Boardroom Battles: Misaligned Boards and Startup Success
(21:02) A New Era: Making Money While Doing Good

Don’t miss this chance to learn from Dan Bowyer’s dynamic journey, sharp insights, and inspiring approach to venture capital. Press play, and let’s spark some bold ideas together!

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:05:13

Christian Soschner

What's the gap that you mentioned between venture capital, family offices, business?

00:00:05:13 - 00:00:08:02

Dan Bowyer

And there's a gap between I think most founders

00:00:08:02 - 00:00:29:10

Dan Bowyer

think that there's a natural progression between better bootstrap. Then you go and get some debt or friends and family or raise a small angel round and then it's just natural to go and raise venture capital. It's not venture capital doesn't serve 99.9% of the people that are on that path or think they're on that path.

00:00:29:12 - 00:00:49:18

Dan Bowyer

So there's a gap between angel investing and venture capital, and it's kind of been filled by a few accelerators, a few incubators that kind of they've kind of moving into that kind of angel. Then they go and take grants. So a bit of philanthropy money, which I don't agree with. I think you become a great entrepreneur and I think that screws your business but not always.

00:00:49:20 - 00:00:56:01

Dan Bowyer

I'm being a bit mean, but it's not always a healthy option to take too much money. You don't have weights and measures. I don't think

00:00:56:01 - 00:01:03:11

Dan Bowyer

so. But there is a gap. There is a gap there to build really, really well. Changing substantial portfolio

00:01:03:11 - 00:01:20:08

Dan Bowyer

businesses where you are. I would like to have a portfolio of ten, 20, 30, £50 million companies that have started from nothing where there are more people, more stake holders rather than one behemoth that goes IPO in ten years time or seven years time.

00:01:20:10 - 00:01:44:13

Dan Bowyer

You know, the Ubers, the wheel works. It's just part of the parcel of venture capital, more, you know, just basically subsidizing the clients. I mean, those days are over for now, but that's what venture capital creates. It creates non business model business models, business models that shouldn't exist in the real world because venture capital is subsidized the route all the way through to to create the monopoly and be the Peter Thiel in the and crush it.

00:01:44:13 - 00:02:07:01

Dan Bowyer

It's like that's not good for people. That's just not good for us as a society. So I want to I want to take up that middle gap, that angel to VC, where rather than one out of 30 companies becoming a unicorn, I have 20 out of 30 becoming 50 or £100 million substantial, employing supporting businesses, doing good things and changing the way

00:02:07:01 - 00:02:07:22

Dan Bowyer

that business is done.

00:02:08:17 - 00:02:26:06

Christian Soschner

Why did that change? I mean, when I think back 20 years ago, the normal way to start a business was start a business, get customers and grow their business with the cash flow that comes in. You need to be careful with growing your customer base and serving them well so that they allow you making a profit that you can reinvest.

00:02:26:08 - 00:02:45:08

Christian Soschner

And when you have a case that can significantly scale faster with investment capital, then you go to investors and part of it is venture capital, basically. When in your opinion, did this attitude change too? I mean, now it feels to be like everybody wants to raise venture capital. So to start a company.

00:02:45:08 - 00:02:49:22

Dan Bowyer

Yeah, I think I think you can blame, you know, Mark Zuckerberg for that. I think when you're

00:02:49:22 - 00:02:56:18

Dan Bowyer

obviously when did he start Facebook? 24 I think so if you're if the news feed

00:02:56:18 - 00:03:09:01

Dan Bowyer

is feeding you stories of 24 year old entrepreneurs becoming billionaires, that becomes very sexy. And then the very platform that he invented, he didn't I mean, he wasn't the first social network.

00:03:09:01 - 00:03:21:16

Dan Bowyer

I think it was the eighth or ninth popular Social network. So Google was probably the 13th, the 14th search engine. But everyone thinks that they were the beginning, but not they know these things have been around for decades or both, many years before you.

00:03:21:16 - 00:03:31:09

Dan Bowyer

But when you have those stories amplified through the news cycles, it becomes sexy and cool and everyone thinks they can just start a business in their garage and become a billionaire.

00:03:31:11 - 00:03:55:23

Dan Bowyer

I mean, the truth is that most successful entrepreneurs are in their fifties the okay that they are white men. They tend not to be women and they tend not to be people of color. And that's changing but slowly. But I think that that whole epoch has kind of created this cool, you know, billionaire.

00:03:55:23 - 00:03:58:20

Dan Bowyer

I'm going I'm going to start a startup and get rich.

00:03:58:20 - 00:04:15:03

Dan Bowyer

And it's not like that, as you know. It's it's it's the hardest job on the planet and probably the least lucrative. I would have made more money had I stayed investing in property than in stocks. Yeah, I have. I have no doubt. Maybe maybe that would change as a VC, if I make the right bets, maybe that would change the VC.

00:04:15:03 - 00:04:20:01

Dan Bowyer

But had I carried on investing and I used to be a property developer, I'd buy

00:04:20:01 - 00:04:35:18

Dan Bowyer

property and and convert and sell and twist in, do up and sell side. And I loved that. But I stopped when I got more heavily into tech and I probably would have made more money had I done that or invested in the S&P at a pretty putting made more

00:04:35:18 - 00:04:39:05

Dan Bowyer

compound money it just right yeah 8% a year.

00:04:39:07 - 00:05:00:23

Christian Soschner

I totally agree. And when you just invest in Apple, Facebook, Google I think it was much better then than investing in some start ups. I mean, when you look at the facts mentioned, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, this is a handful of people. And when I look back at the last 50 years, how many people I met started a company,

00:05:00:23 - 00:05:06:10

Christian Soschner

didn't work, started the next company, didn't work, started the next company, but it didn't become this shiny billionaires.

00:05:06:10 - 00:05:07:17

Christian Soschner

It's just it's just a few.

00:05:07:20 - 00:05:31:05

Dan Bowyer

But yeah, I think that's 90 9.9. 9% of people that start businesses. I mean, I think there's a there's also a difference between business managers and entrepreneurs. I think people look at people who've started a business as an entrepreneur, but really they're not. They're doing something that's always been done and they're just doing that. They're becoming an accountant or setting up a, you know, a marketing agency.

00:05:31:07 - 00:05:47:09

Dan Bowyer

They're built. To me, that business manages a founder or an entrepreneur is looking at that industry and doing it in a whole new way and transforming that industry. That's what a founder or an entrepreneur is to me. So and there's nothing wrong with either or both. I mean, each have their space in the world.

00:05:47:11 - 00:05:50:21

Christian Soschner

So sorry to interrupt you. How do you how do your

00:05:50:21 - 00:06:09:09

Christian Soschner

how do you find out which personality a person has when you invest, whether it's this kind of entrepreneur that you mentioned? Yeah, set up, set out venturing out into the world to disrupt an entire industry or just a regular business, What makes the difference in your opinion?

00:06:09:11 - 00:06:12:14

Dan Bowyer

I think I mean, I have a kind of a

00:06:12:14 - 00:06:38:03

Dan Bowyer

a trifecta, a3a3 pronged kind of personality test in my head when I meet people and it's charmingly disagreeable and determined. So are you going to sell me wax my ears tell me everything that I want to hear. Brilliant. Are you a little bit obnoxious, a little bit disagreeable? I don't want you rolling over to everything I say just because I'm holding the checkbook.

00:06:38:03 - 00:07:02:16

Dan Bowyer

It is a little bit disagreeable. Not for its own sake, but, you know, just No. Damn, that's wrong. I think of this in a different way. And so there's a there's a healthy kind of debate. And this determination, which is normally driven by they've lived in a world or they've been in a domain in business where they're just upset and irritated by how by the status quo.

00:07:02:16 - 00:07:20:00

Dan Bowyer

So this has got to be done in a different way. So if they have this charmingly disagreeable and determined personality and they've lived in a world for five years maybe, and they've done the same thing over and over again, or dealt with the same idiots over and over again, say, I'm going to change this.

00:07:20:00 - 00:07:27:24

Dan Bowyer

Then they go, I'm starting a company that's going to transform how marketing is done or procurement or supply chain management, or the back office or whatever it might be.

00:07:28:01 - 00:07:33:10

Dan Bowyer

That's the stuff that I find really interesting. So they're the people that change the world.

00:07:33:10 - 00:07:52:11

Dan Bowyer

Then you get the entrepreneurs or you get the noisy entrepreneurs. But you know, when you meet people that are going to they're going to go out. And obviously my lens is the VC lens is the power lowlands. So I have a very specific view on on how obnoxious and how determined and how disagreeable people need to be.

00:07:52:13 - 00:08:05:00

Dan Bowyer

And it's pretty can be fairly, fairly psychopathic at times that I can sell my grandmother. I'm going to make this I'm going to I'm going to take this in global and go big. So that's what you look for as a VC.

00:08:05:08 - 00:08:11:00

Christian Soschner

How do you handle this? People you mentioned disagreeable, determined and obnoxious. Yes,

00:08:11:00 - 00:08:13:17

Christian Soschner

Basically it's challenging personalities.

00:08:13:20 - 00:08:16:17

Dan Bowyer

Yeah. I just describe myself as well. So.

00:08:16:19 - 00:08:17:04

Christian Soschner

So

00:08:17:04 - 00:08:20:11

Christian Soschner

how do you get along with these people then? At the end of the day, I mean.

00:08:20:13 - 00:08:36:11

Dan Bowyer

Like, I don't need to like you, I need to respect you. There needs to be a working relationship. I would like to like you. I'd like to go to the pub with you. I don't drink alcohol anymore, but I would like to spend time with you. Go for dinner. But we don't have to. We have to get on a mission and.

00:08:36:13 - 00:08:52:14

Dan Bowyer

And be professional and make something happen. We're going to make magic together. It's like a marriage, but it's. It's not like a marriage insofar as we're going to, you know, collapse in a fight and out on the sofa and give each other a cuddle. Not we're not going to do that. So I just want to you're here to do your job.

00:08:52:14 - 00:08:55:08

Dan Bowyer

I'm here to do my job. I'm here to connect. Give you money,

00:08:55:08 - 00:09:04:05

Dan Bowyer

connect the dots, help get things out of the way, put some things in the way and watch you fly. And that's that's my job as a venture capitalist.

00:09:04:21 - 00:09:21:08

Christian Soschner

There are so many discussions currently on social media about how to approach a venture capitalist. What's your way? How do you handle this initial stages of building a relationship with nobody entrepreneurs is what do you want to see?

00:09:21:13 - 00:09:44:24

Dan Bowyer

I just I mean, I want to see. I want to see thought. I want to see. I don't need to see everything. And nothing is to be perfect. So I invest very early about pre-seed and seed. So some traction or no traction. Some clients sometimes no clients, but there's there's working product and there's a really hungry team who've got a working product and, and they're trying to do something in a new way in business.

00:09:45:01 - 00:10:07:18

Dan Bowyer

But for the family, for the early interaction days, I just want to see joined up thinking. I want to see a healthy understanding of their purpose, why they get out of bed, what they're trying to achieve, their mission, what their vision is, how they how they see the world changing in ten or 20 years time, and what they think their position in the market is today.

00:10:07:18 - 00:10:35:17

Dan Bowyer

What what is the bit that's missing? What is the differentiated space? What are they? Where's the magic sauce? Where's the Trojan business model? What's the thing that's going to change? Or give them the first step to give them a chance to change the vision that they have or create the vision that they have? So there's an attitudinal piece, there's a bit of a practical piece in there, and then there's just some joined up thinking where they they know I can ask them anything and they'll they'll have a really sensible, considered thoughtful answer.

00:10:35:17 - 00:10:36:02

Dan Bowyer

That's what.

00:10:38:00 - 00:10:45:08

Christian Soschner

You mentioned that you would like to see companies to transform towards disrupt industries and ideally destroy the big corporations and replace.

00:10:45:08 - 00:11:08:18

Dan Bowyer

Necessarily destroy. I would like to see their their methods destroyed. I don't think they will be around in the same way in ten, 20, 30 years time. But the enterprise is going to radically transform. That said, I and I may I maybe destroy that, but I think I want to destroy the shitty bits. There's a lot of stuff that goes on about how they behave, what they get away with, how they treat their employees, whether the rich still need to transform.

00:11:08:21 - 00:11:20:17

Dan Bowyer

Things have changed massively, right? We're not living in boxes where nobody talks about mental health and you've got to work 9 to 5. You hate it. You leave those worlds all majority free over. But there's still so much more to do.

00:11:20:17 - 00:11:28:02

Christian Soschner

And it's summarized it in a way that supersede your fund. Is commercialization and customers first.

00:11:28:04 - 00:11:48:22

Dan Bowyer

Yeah, we are the value piece of the platform business all around commercialization. How do we how do we get you to market? How do we build a global business? How does this become venture scale, global change the world? How does this truly transform business and become the way that the next layer of efficiency and productivity for business that's that's on star is how how efficient can you be?

00:11:49:03 - 00:11:56:07

Dan Bowyer

How much productivity can you create in business across across whichever sector? I don't care about the sector. Just candidates transform it.

00:11:56:09 - 00:12:04:16

Christian Soschner

Look at the right in the standing when you invest in pre-seed companies, I mean, very often they don't have a prototype yet or they don't have. It's just.

00:12:04:19 - 00:12:24:15

Dan Bowyer

They do. They do. Even the even the we don't invest in nonworking product pre-seed. We don't invest at ideation, we invest at working product. That's our line in the sand. It doesn't have to be pretty. It has to be something that's working that's in a client's hands that they go, there's value in this. That's, that's the that's the line.

00:12:25:00 - 00:12:45:04

Christian Soschner

So basically we stay in the podcast example. It's just a blanket topic. I don't know if any of you if you have a betting supplement, you want to see a product with hundreds, hundreds, 200 episodes on the market already, something that's tangible that people can touch. Yeah, that's there. Yes Okay, it's a prototype. And then you take your founders through

00:12:45:04 - 00:12:49:03

Christian Soschner

a default process in which they are challenged to think about.

00:12:49:07 - 00:13:02:00

Christian Soschner

Now how do we get it to the customers? What would the customers need? Is it really what we have, what they need? How can we scale it? How can we expand it? How can we be conquered? But if this product, then at the end of the day.

00:13:02:02 - 00:13:03:11

Dan Bowyer

That's exactly right. I mean, it's

00:13:03:11 - 00:13:22:13

Dan Bowyer

what we do as part of our investment process is set up ten new client phone calls for our founders. So we get to see how they behave and if clients, you know, buy them and buy it. But also fundamentally, we get to see what kind of pull from the market there is for this offering.

00:13:22:13 - 00:13:43:16

Dan Bowyer

So we're we're using it as a diligence process to to work together. No founder has ever said I don't want more sales. So that's just you know, that's just not happening. So it's a very easy process to run is like, Christ, you're going to give me ten new customers. Yep, where do I sign? So that's the beginning of the process.

00:13:43:16 - 00:13:44:20

Dan Bowyer

It's all about

00:13:44:20 - 00:13:52:01

Dan Bowyer

where where are the soft spots in the market? Obviously, that changes over time, and the last year has been a massive transformational shift with our client behavior.

00:13:52:01 - 00:14:06:16

Dan Bowyer

But is yeah, is there a pull is there a pull in the market for for this thing? And that's that's all that matters to to to new businesses is you don't need pushing water uphill you want it you want a a go to market process or at least it can be clumsy to start because they always are.

00:14:06:18 - 00:14:15:22

Dan Bowyer

But you need some way of knowing that there's a there's a there's a hunger for the thing that you're building. And the only way to do that is to get in front of clients. But that's it.

00:14:16:04 - 00:14:25:09

Christian Soschner

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, it doesn't matter if it's a deep tech company or a tech company. That's always the must. I mean, if it's a company, they must be a customer. This is just a given.

00:14:25:14 - 00:14:29:00

Dan Bowyer

The be has to be. I mean, deep tech is a funny one. I don't even know.

00:14:29:00 - 00:14:39:20

Dan Bowyer

I was sat at a roundtable with a bunch of VCs the other day and I asked a very famous deep tech investor to to define deep tech. And he couldn't.

00:14:39:20 - 00:14:45:10

Dan Bowyer

And it just made me smile. I mean, to me, deep tech is and I said, I gave him my definition and he

00:14:45:10 - 00:14:47:05

Dan Bowyer

shot me down in flames, but he didn't give me that.

00:14:47:05 - 00:14:48:05

Dan Bowyer

Like.

00:14:48:07 - 00:14:49:04

Christian Soschner

What's your definition?

00:14:49:07 - 00:14:51:12

Dan Bowyer

I said, Deep tech is a really

00:14:51:12 - 00:14:56:14

Dan Bowyer

transformative, smart new technology with no discernible business model. Yet.

00:14:56:14 - 00:15:09:12

Dan Bowyer

So, you know, Quantum is going to be transformative. You know, fusion is going to be transformative. They are deep tech operations, but you don't quite know how they're going to make money or who they're going to serve or what the outcome offering is going to be.

00:15:09:12 - 00:15:12:14

Dan Bowyer

So that's how I that's how I define deep tech.

00:15:12:16 - 00:15:24:02

Christian Soschner

And with that, I totally agree with what you say with that, with a scientific background. So basic. yes, yes. The ideas evolve out of some sort of university scientific background thought of basically, maybe.

00:15:24:02 - 00:15:25:12

Dan Bowyer

I'm not I'm not as wedded

00:15:25:12 - 00:15:44:07

Christian Soschner

that that's true. I mean, Apple had a similar story. I read it in the book. The pilot by Sebastian was composed similar be they needed to hire at least one sales guy, one guy with a business background so that obviously some are motivated to invest in the company. Yeah and it leads me to the next question

00:15:44:07 - 00:15:46:00

Christian Soschner

on your LinkedIn profile.

00:15:46:00 - 00:15:48:21

Christian Soschner

I read the post, That's why you stated. Khosla

00:15:48:21 - 00:16:05:16

Christian Soschner

I mean, you do a lot of work with your founders and it sounds to me that your activist and Vinod Khosla made the statement that 90% of startup investors at zero value. Yeah, so a company and 70% at negative value. Yeah. How do you see this statement in a cluster?

00:16:05:18 - 00:16:08:06

Dan Bowyer

I think. I think he's, he's spiking,

00:16:08:06 - 00:16:31:02

Dan Bowyer

he's spiking the, the algorithm is to, to present news and to present headlines. I agree that I mean let's look I have, I, I'll take it personally. Have I ever added negative value in a strategy or a board meeting. Yes. Have I have I have I have been an oxygen thief in meetings.

00:16:31:02 - 00:16:34:20

Dan Bowyer

Not often, but every now and then. I've I've not added value

00:16:34:20 - 00:16:59:23

Dan Bowyer

to most of the meetings that have with other VCs or investors at board or at strategy with founding teams add value. I would say it's about a 5050 hit rate. So 50% either do or do regularly or do generally, and 50% just don't. I mean, some of the boards I'm on are just updating old people and they're miserable and I'm not leading them and it's not my place.

00:16:59:23 - 00:17:14:15

Dan Bowyer

But I resent being on them because it's just not adding any values to the to the founders at all, which is not cool. I think any board meeting that is not creating a change or adding adding marginal gains at the very least I think is bad. So I struggle with that.

00:17:14:15 - 00:17:21:12

Dan Bowyer

Most VCs have never worked in a startup, so how if you've never worked in a startup,

00:17:21:12 - 00:17:25:12

Dan Bowyer

can you advise an early stage founder to build a startup?

00:17:25:14 - 00:17:46:03

Dan Bowyer

You can't. We can patent match to a degree, so you can look across the portfolio, what books you've read and stuff, and you can match and you can reply. And a lot of VCs do that thinking, that they are world class and they then, you know, they know everything and they don't. And it is I've been on board meetings where founders have been given advice by other VCs, and I've just sat there going, That's bad.

00:17:46:03 - 00:17:52:08

Dan Bowyer

I mean, there's there's stuff that doesn't make any difference and it's kind of nihilistic. So what on there's bad advice. There's bad things today

00:17:52:08 - 00:17:54:21

Dan Bowyer

that happens

00:17:54:21 - 00:18:09:08

Dan Bowyer

So the 9070, who knows? But I think he's just you know, he's just making a play and I'm sifted and TechCrunch will lap it up, right? Yeah. But I would argue that many early stage

00:18:09:08 - 00:18:10:21

Dan Bowyer

investors are just not additive.

00:18:10:21 - 00:18:22:03

Dan Bowyer

They don't want to be. They're just not they don't any value. And that's obviously going to make up the 90 and those that are actively damaging. I don't think it's 70%. I think there are a number that that try and do good.

00:18:22:03 - 00:18:30:11

Dan Bowyer

But a founder's job is to be the best filter in the world. So sometimes my best intentioned advice or support or frameworks

00:18:30:11 - 00:18:32:08

Dan Bowyer

are not going to work.

00:18:32:08 - 00:18:38:08

Dan Bowyer

And just because it's worked in the past doesn't mean that that is going to work in the future for them. In this scenario right now.

00:18:38:08 - 00:18:50:13

Dan Bowyer

you could argue that the 70% adding negative value, that's the founder's fault. I mean, you shouldn't just listen and blindly follow. You should listen a lesson, a lesson and then be the best filter in the world to go, You know what?

00:18:50:13 - 00:19:07:15

Dan Bowyer

I know what I'm saying, but I don't agree. And I think this and I'm going to do this this way. And I'm all for being wrong. I love being wrong. I think a lot of the magic that happens in my industry is when I'm wrong or when when other other investors are wrong. But most people would never admit that because we've got egos the size of planets.

00:19:07:17 - 00:19:18:03

Dan Bowyer

So I think his statement is fundamentally wrong. Bullshit in the bullshit bucket, but I think the essence of it is absolutely right.

00:19:18:05 - 00:19:26:00

Christian Soschner

Yeah, not every not every investor makes a good board member. You mentioned the term, but what is the ideal role of report in a company in Europe?

00:19:26:00 - 00:19:32:12

Dan Bowyer

No problems. That's it. So if you're not solving problems every single board meeting, it's wrong.

00:19:32:13 - 00:19:33:15

Christian Soschner

Change It

00:19:33:17 - 00:19:48:17

Christian Soschner

I mean, I can connect the the quote from being a counselor to my experience, especially with early stage companies, with with business angels where everyone basically wants to be on a pilot role after they invested €5,000 in and claiming it. But yeah.

00:19:48:23 - 00:19:53:01

Dan Bowyer

Yeah. Can I have all the updates? Can I have a board seat. Can I information. No, piss off.

00:19:53:03 - 00:20:01:03

Christian Soschner

So very often said not everyone who invests in a company needs to be on a board because it's not a function, it's a process.

00:20:01:03 - 00:20:05:01

Dan Bowyer

I can't wait to sack myself from boards and find people that are more

00:20:05:01 - 00:20:17:22

Dan Bowyer

impressive. They're going to take the team to the next stage. Most people want to hang on as I just don't agree with it and boards should never lost. The board structure should never lost more than a year. Every year the board and the board structure should be challenged.

00:20:17:22 - 00:20:24:21

Dan Bowyer

Is this what we need for this next phase of growth? Are these right people for this next phase of growth? And I'm super happy to be sacked.

00:20:24:21 - 00:20:34:11

Christian Soschner

One last question. Founders or investors, listen to this episode. What piece of advice would you want to give them At the end of this call.

00:20:34:13 - 00:20:40:02

Dan Bowyer

Founders and investors advice. I think

00:20:40:02 - 00:20:44:17

Dan Bowyer

it's a cheeseball one. It's a bit it's a bit cheesy, but

00:20:44:17 - 00:20:52:06

Dan Bowyer

the next wave of commercial activity will be about making money and doing good and creating change.

00:20:52:06 - 00:20:59:16

Dan Bowyer

maybe not advice. More of a statement or more of a kind of a a maxim or a request, which is

00:20:59:16 - 00:21:00:22

Dan Bowyer

make money and do good.

00:21:00:22 - 00:21:09:10

Dan Bowyer

Now, doing good doesn't mean saving all the babies or making malaria nets or curing AIDS Do good can be in a multitude of ways.

00:21:09:10 - 00:21:17:02

Dan Bowyer

And it's more than just not being a dick. So we've moved on from don't be a dick to do some good. So

00:21:17:02 - 00:21:18:07

Dan Bowyer

whether you're a founder,

00:21:18:07 - 00:21:24:12

Dan Bowyer

do good. If you're an investor, invest good, do good things, make the world a better place.

00:21:24:17 - 00:21:30:01

Dan Bowyer

And that's that's a cheeseball and it's cheesy, but I don't care. That's that's the reality.

00:21:30:03 - 00:21:35:13

Christian Soschner

That's a great statement. I think we have to work on that to make the world a better place. Live it better than you found it.

00:21:35:15 - 00:21:36:19

Dan Bowyer

Yeah. Yeah.